Ship: Sunfighter ( or whatever you want to call it )

    • Ship: Sunfighter ( or whatever you want to call it )

      I found this suggestion really interesting from the .org Board :)
      SunFighter

      Initial post ( Suggested by NightSlammer :(
      This ship is to rebalance the game!
      Battlecruisers own everything.

      Techs:

      Energytech 12 (why? ==> Because with the higher energytech the flightcost will reduce!)
      Lasertech 12
      Iontech 10 (Improved weapons to beat the BC)
      Hyperspace Drive 8 (faster speed to catch the BC!)

      Weapontech 10
      Shieldtech 10
      Armourtech 10

      The costs?
      Metal: 75.000
      Crystal: 45.000
      Deuterium: 25.000 (why high deutcost to make these ships? Because of the low flightcost!)

      Flightcost: 225

      Rapidfire against:
      Against BC: 5 rapidfire
      Against LightFighters: 10 rapidfire
      against heavy fighters: 3 rapidfire
      against cruisers: 3 rapidfire

      Rapidfire from:
      from Destroyers: -2 rapidfire
      from Star: -5 rapidfire
      from Battleships -2 rapidfire
      from bomber: -3 rapidfire


      I think with these rapidfires the game will be more balanced!
      It's just an idea!!!

      Best and most Important Comments

      Best comments:
      1* enifield1:
      Ok, first of all remove the rapid fire to HF, LF and Cruisers (there are already ships that fullfill this purpose) and lower the rapid fire vs BC to 4
      To even up the loss of those rapid fires make it loss the rapid fire from Bombers (they are meant to fight defenses and are slow anyway).

      Then reduce the metal and 50k and the cry to 30k and the duet to 20k and thats an interesting ship :)

      Remove the W/S/A tech requirements, those are designed to make your ships better, not as requirements.

      However i see the purpose

      There is a problem with speed fleets having nothing that actually kills a BC easily. Pretty much gotta use other BC's agianst it and LF because Dessies are to slow.



      2* NightSlammer
      Yeah well it was just an idea ;)
      Yeah probably the costs should be lower than the destroyer and the rapidfire would be changed

      but my idea is just to make a ship to counter the battlecruiser.
      And because the Battleship is so bad (in my opinion) because it has no rapidfire. It could have rapidfire against the sunfighter.
      So battleships can be destroyed by battlecruisers
      battlecruisers can be destroyed by sunfighters
      sunfighters can be destroyed by battleships :)



      3* Kamil
      it is an interesting concept honestly, maybe with bit more tweaking and adjustments, it could develop into a a very good idea actually ;)

      the cost definitely should be lowered, RF adjusted ( it cant kill fodders and fodder killers at such a high RF "if it even should kill them" coz that would dis-balance the game heavily, RF from bomber is a no " maybe a 2 RF agasint bomber but not from ), W/S/A removed from requirements, keep RF from BS even if BS dont require deut as this ship will actually balance things, since as mentioned above:


      So battleships can be destroyed by battlecruisers
      battlecruisers can be destroyed by sunfighters
      sunfighters can be destroyed by battleships :)



      base speed ?
      based SI ?
      base W/S/A ?

      about the HSD 8 so it catches the bc, it shouldnt be like that, bc kill bs, but they are same speed, dessies kill bc but at lower speed, maybe same speed or bit lower speed, but certainly not faster than bc in my opinion.

      little adjustments and it could turn into a pretty nice idea :)



      4* enifield1:
      Ok, i suggest changing the rapid fire to 3 against BC like Kamil said

      However I don't know if this makes dessies to OP. I think instead it makes them super important as a defense ship as they are to slow and duet heavy to fly long distance.

      The big winners in this are the BS and HF because people will build slightly less BC to create these. With less BC, HF and BS become more attractive, so its even up for debate if the BS needs rapid fire against it? Because by virtue of its existance it gets a helping hand. A BS and Frigate combo would be deadly because you cant use just BC against it.

      So using only fast craft and assuming BS has no rapid fire its difficult to think of an all powerful combo like it is currently for BC and Cruiser (it has rapid fire against almost everything, only way to beat it with fast ships is other BC and Cruiser) (Excluding dessie, bombers and RiPs because they are slow)

      With this in the game BC and Cruiser becomes less OP and the combination become more balanced.

      Only problem is, what if these and dessies are sat behind defenses. This means bombers are rapid fired agianst which could be problematic

      @IMVS yes the BC costs almost as much as a dessie and is almost as good, but its far better at crashing fleets than a dessie, because dessies cost alot of duet to fly and arnt quick. So people can easily crash BS and other ships of similiarish numbers with only BC. With this they now need a combo instead of just being BC heavy.



      5* Posted by enifield, then edited by me in the red:

      Kamil wrote:

      enifield1 wrote:

      I dunno if your meant to do this but, I'm not stealing your idea just adding to it.

      Name: Frigate (In keeping with Ogames Naval Theme)

      Requirements
      Energy tech 10*
      Laser tech 12 (Same Requirement as BC)
      Ion tech 8 (Because there is never a use past 5 and i've always wanted there to be) ( that should be interesting :) )
      Robo 2 (Same Requirement as BC)
      Shipyard 8 (Same Requirement as BC)
      Hyper tech 5*
      Hyperdrive 5*
      Weapons 10 * + (Lots of ships require shield tech, I think one should require weapons)

      *Wanting this to be a late game ship so giving it higher requirements makes it better for use later in game ( agree with this )

      Cost
      Metal: 35.000
      Crystal: 35.000
      Deuterium: 20.000

      Theses costs make it slightly more expensive than BC, using 1:2:3 trade rates a BC costs 155 units while this costs 165 and a BS costs 75 and a Dessie costs 175. Sitting perfectly between BC and Dessie, while the BC is still a cheap and powerful option. ( also agree, could be bit adjusted, but good enough )

      Structural Integrity: 70,000 (Formula of Metal + cry)
      Shield: 620 ( Lower than BC but higher than BS making for a fair combo)
      Attack: 1,860 (Higher than BC but lower than BS making for fair combo)
      Cargo: 500 (Higher than BC and lower than BS making for fair combo)
      Flightcost: 250 (Same as BC)
      ( agree on all above as well )

      Rapidfire against:
      BC: 5 (Designed to kill this) BC: 3 ( designed to kill this ) " but dont overpower it too much, dessies have a RF on bc of 2 and cost 15k deut to build, something with 20k deut to build should have more RF which is in the RF against bombers which will be the only speed ship to have RF against it, and a small of RF against bc but not too much )
      Bomber: 2 (Because of its high duet cost it seems only fair, and it was a good suggestion by Kamil)
      Solar Sat: 5
      Esp Probe: 5

      Rapidfire from:
      Destroyers: 2 (Dessies need to remain most powerful ship, however this makes them super powerful defensively) ==> too much power for dessies, BUT you need something to kill this ship at higher rate than bs so, i suggest it would be a 3 to keep things balanced in my opinion )
      Death Star: 30 (Same as BS) ( good enough )
      Battleships: 2 (Creates a paperscissors rock scenario) ( since dessies have RF 3 agasint it, bs should have a 2 as mentioned not bad then )

      Conclusion
      While the old system proposed Dessie>BC>BS this never really happened because Dessies where to slow to get to big actions. So it ended up being BC> Cruiser, HF, BS

      This ship will keep the Frigate>BC>BS>Frigate and makes it full circle. However dessie is still the 'king of warships' and one vs one will beat all ships but the deathstar :)




      6* enifield1
      Ok, i suggest changing the rapid fire to 3 against BC like Kamil said

      However I don't know if this makes dessies to OP. I think instead it makes them super important as a defense ship as they are to slow and duet heavy to fly long distance.

      The big winners in this are the BS and HF because people will build slightly less BC to create these. With less BC, HF and BS become more attractive, so its even up for debate if the BS needs rapid fire against it? Because by virtue of its existance it gets a helping hand. A BS and Frigate combo would be deadly because you cant use just BC against it.

      So using only fast craft and assuming BS has no rapid fire its difficult to think of an all powerful combo like it is currently for BC and Cruiser (it has rapid fire against almost everything, only way to beat it with fast ships is other BC and Cruiser) (Excluding dessie, bombers and RiPs because they are slow)

      With this in the game BC and Cruiser becomes less OP and the combination become more balanced.

      Only problem is, what if these and dessies are sat behind defenses. This means bombers are rapid fired agianst which could be problematic

      @IMVS yes the BC costs almost as much as a dessie and is almost as good, but its far better at crashing fleets than a dessie, because dessies cost alot of duet to fly and arnt quick. So people can easily crash BS and other ships of similiarish numbers with only BC. With this they now need a combo instead of just being BC heavy.



      7* Kamil
      Everything you said is quite right, except for this ;)

      Only problem is, what if these and dessies are sat behind defenses. This means bombers are rapid fired agianst which could be problematic




      fleet isnt supposed to sit behind defense ;)
      even if dessies and this ship sit behind defense, a mixed fleet of lf/dessies( instead of the bombers or with small number of bombers ) would wipe them out, coz lf breaks the RF and dessies do the job of killing both the other dessies and this ship :)
      also, for you to be able to take down a defense holding a fleet, that sure means you have a good amount of ships, so no problem with this in my opinion.


      At the end, the End Result is:

      Name: Frigate (Could Be Changed )

      Requirements:
      Energy tech 10*
      Laser tech 12
      Ion tech 8
      Shipyard 8
      Hyper tech 5*
      Hyperdrive 5*
      Weapons 10 *


      Cost:
      Metal: 35.000
      Crystal: 35.000
      Deuterium: 20.000

      Structural Integrity: 70,000
      Shield: 620
      Attack: 1,860
      Cargo: 500
      Flightcost: 250

      Rapidfire against:
      BC: 3
      Bomber: 2
      Solar Sat: 5
      Esp Probe: 5

      Rapidfire from:
      Destroyers: -2
      Death Star: -30
      Battleships: -2

    • so you want to fill the gap of a missing counter to BCs?

      do we really need this? ok the BCs are really strong and there is really nothing you can do against masses of them. but before we had BCs we had BS' and was it that bad before? maybe it would be easier to rebalance an existing ship to lower the dominance of BCs.


      ps: i like the work you guys have done. has anybody tested some example fights with speedsim? i think you can alter ship values for testing.

    • i always hear the arguement that smaller ships cant have rf against bigger ones... if that still will be strictly held... your ship failed :)

      to be honest... there is one way to kill bc's... yep, mighty destroyers... expensive and slow, i know ;) but maybe we should change around the existing ships isntead of adding a new one

    • Toxicterror wrote:

      i always hear the arguement that smaller ships cant have rf against bigger ones... if that still will be strictly held... your ship failed :)

      to be honest... there is one way to kill bc's... yep, mighty destroyers... expensive and slow, i know ;) but maybe we should change around the existing ships isntead of adding a new one


      what smaller ship cant kill bigger ship O.o
      there is no mentioning of any small ship, except for the main idea, which was altered heavily at the end :)
      there is not even a single mention to small ship involved :)

      anw, i am heading off to school, but when i return i will say MY opinion on the ship :)

    • I don´t have time right now to give a real opinion about this ship. However as usual people seem to think that BCs are unstoppable unless you have a huge amount of destroyers. Try to match the BCs against LFs and then tell me what happenend. Or a combination of LFs and BSs for that matter. ^^

    • yet another ship we do not need...

      1) no rf for small against big ships
      2) no rf against weak ships like bombers
      3) no rf for battleships
      4) no more ships with that high speed and low deut costs, with destroyer like damage and heavier shields

      as Azgaroth already told you... BC are not that strong as most people think. a pure light fighter + battleship combination will destroy every BC fleet with profit and this is done with a cheaper fleet. so upgrade you simulation skills and don't call for new ships ;)

    • first off i am a pure bc fleeter for your information ;)
      i have 35k bc in my univ which is a pretty high number considering any other ship i have and what others have :)
      so i will be a first to be harmed with this ship.
      and i have 5 years of ogame experience so i know what the game is exactly.
      also, that isnt MY suggestion, i liked to forward it here from the .org coz it was pretty well thought considering its a SHIP suggestion.
      i never said my opinion on it, so plz dont be so offensive on something i havent even had the time to say anything about :)

      i know how to kill bc fleet and i have done it many many times, and i know the bc isnt so powerful by it self, as it has major weakness on a fleet of lf fodder and some heavies with it.
      i know it is a ship that might be breaking the rule of no less costing ship can have rf on the higher cost ship, but as i said , it liked the idea of the ship and thats about it.
      i know it wont be implemented, i know it wouldnt be the best idea to put ingame, but i also know it is a good SHIP suggestion that was made and thought.
      if others dont like it, ok, i wont argue with that, but i liked the idea behind it, and thats pretty much it.
      i am not asking anyone to like it and i wont coz each has his opinion :)

    • so if you know all that stuff, why still "wasting" our time with a bad ship idea, that is never going to be part of the game? :) shouldn't a suggestion, that is written down here, have at least a 0.0001% chance to be included? :P and it's really a bad idea, because it is breaking basic rules for nothing new. it's not adding new stuff to the combat system, no new tactics. it's just another new ship without a real sense behind it.

      the problem with ship ideas over all is that they only try adding a new ship with name x to the game. they are never going to target problems within the combat system, it's just include a new ship that maybe can do something already existing a little bit better. but if the they want that something to get better then why not just alter a existing ship? if you wanna weak the BC then you are going to increase destroy rapidfire or reduce BC vs battleship RF. but there is no huge problem within the speed fleet vs speed fleet combat at the moment, this has been fixed with the BC itself. if you're looking for problems just take a look on rip performance vs speed fleet or bomber performance vs huge defense. but what is this idea doing? it's weakening the bomber even more? that's just silly :(