Universe with smaller planets

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    • Universe with smaller planets

      Please: don't take this as an absurd proposition, at least take it seriously and think about it (and post here your opinion, arguing it). I started playing many years ago, so this proposition is not an idea from someone who has been here for just a few months.
      Disclaimer: all numbers are not thought thoroughly, so think about the idea, and the optimization of numbers will be a different matter that will come later.

      It started as a mid-joke, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced it might really have a shot. This would create a completely different experience, the same way it happened back then when OGame opened universes with defense to debris, or with more than x1 speed, or ACS. Those are completely different experiences, this is another proposition.

      What if there was an universe in which planets would be smaller?

      For instance, the biggest planet possible had 110 fields (as I said above, the numbers should be also discussed / decided, this is just to show the idea). That would mean that mines wouldn't be bigger than a certain number and all planets would eventually be practically filled. Imagine one manages to get mines 35 29 31, then to compensate for this limit, the speed of the production should be high, like x10, to achieve a production of 100-200M daily resources.

      So building construction would eventually end for a planet, and only three remaining options would be there: defense, technology or fleet. And I think the third one would be the most chosen. Plus, anyone that starts the universe late could get at a decent speed in a matter of few months (which is one of the problems of ogame, that there's no late addition of players to an universe).

      Only a second thing, since people would in some way would be forced to have fleet, it should be a livable universe, so not more than x2 fleet speed (if it was x4 or such it would be a massacre from the top players, and would be monopolized fast). In fact, I think x1 would be okey, that way one could “easily” survive.

      I have a few more things to say, but I will leave the ideas out so you can think about it more freely. Please, ask, talk, suggest, argue, etc. so this idea at least passes through peer review in some way.

      Summary (just to throw some numbers): x10 economy, x1 fleet speed, 30% debris fields, −100 fields per planet, ACS.

      And, if it gets attention, and you decide to try it, you could open the universe as an international one (as you did with prOgame a ton of years ago) and give it publicity so people from every community come to it.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Minion ().

    • Hi minion

      A universe like this ->x10 economy, x1 fleet speed, 30% debris fields, −100 fields per planet, ACS.

      It's impossible to be created, because nobody would do fleet if there is a difference like that.
      In my opinion it would be a farmville 2.0 xD
      ------------

      A new universe had to be created with any balance betweenn fleet and economy.

      If you take off 100 fields you would have planets around 120 fields maximum.

      You would fill the planet like this:
      Metal mine: 32
      Crystal mine: 29
      Deuterium mine: 30

      91 fields, if you need at least level 20 of solar Plant we would occupy 111, without robots.
      It's impossible to do this.
      Ogame.es & Ogame.ar SGO
      Origin Supporter

    • Imperor wrote:

      It's impossible to be created, because nobody would do fleet if there is a difference like that.
      In my opinion it would be a farmville 2.0 xD
      ------------

      Why would you say that? It's a x1, so you got much more time than in speed universes, but from that to say that nobody would fleet? I mean, OGame has been x1 for a long time and for sure people learnt and needed to fleetsave.

      Imperor wrote:

      91 fields, if you need at least level 20 of solar Plant we would occupy 111, without robots.
      It's impossible to do this.

      What's the impossible? That's the twist, with those mines you would produce a lot, so the growth would be comparable to a speed universe, but it wouldn't be no Farmville 2.0 (that's what would happen if you use x5 mines x1 fleet, because then people would grow only mines, but here they won't be able to).
    • Sorry Imperor, but I think you have to take more time to analyse this suggestion.

      His suggestion is exactly against farmville : the planets will be full very quickly, so it means that the current life of a universe ( fleeters start fast, but die, farmers start light, but at the end are the most well ranked ) will not apply anymore.

      This suggestion can be a very strategic universe with a longer period of activity than the current one.

      This should definitely not become the general settings of universes, but that can lead to a special universe that never exist in Ogame.
    • You are talking about x10 economy and x1 fleet

      If a universe like this is created, nobody (or a few ones) will do fleet and everybody would build mines, that is the reason i say that would seem to farmville.
      It's obvious that it is profitable to do it.
      Is only a comparison.


      It's my opinion, this is a war ship game..., would you build fleet having x10 economy?

      Let's think as a fleet player
      120 fields

      At least:
      Robots level 10
      Nanobots 6
      Hangar 12
      Laboratory 12
      Here we have 40 fields.

      Only 70 to other buildings?

      -----

      Iguypouf this is a game to have every kind of people, you are saying to kill fleeters... where is the interest?
      Ogame.es & Ogame.ar SGO
      Origin Supporter

    • I said exactly the inverse...

      In the proposal, the x10 économy / x1 fleet IS BALANCED with the fact that the planets are very small. It means that the players, at one moment of the Universe life, will have no choice to... DO FLEET.

      Today after 4 or 5 years, the remaining players are trusted by farmers, and fleeters are more rare each day.

      This proposal can create an universe where this FACT ( its not my opinion ) can be false.

      And once again, its a proposal for a SPECIAL universe, not for all new universes to be created.
    • iguypouf wrote:

      the x10 économy / x1 fleet IS BALANCED


      Sure?? please, think about it... Where is the balance there? fleet needs one hore or more to attack anybody and you have mines production x10... that would be around 70M per day.

      I don't see any balance, explain me why do you say it is balaced..

      RiV- wrote:

      What do you want to build else if your planets are full and you can't build mines anymore?


      Yes, people has to made fleet because the can't do anything else when they fill up all planets, but first they would finish all possible mines.

      What about if someone wants to be miner? We continue without having any balance because you force all players to spend resources in something maybe they don't want to do.

      In my opinion one universe like that is forcing players to do everyone the same, at first everybody mines, and when they cannot do anything else, everybody has to do fleet to spend in something, but this game must provide a variety of gaming shapes... with this we bind players to do everyone the same strategy.
      Ogame.es & Ogame.ar SGO
      Origin Supporter

    • This is by no means constructive criticism ;) I hope that more people would write answers and ideas here, because then it would be more dynamic; right now trying to explain an idea here makes longer posts which might bore the reader.

      The main purpose of this discussion should be if this universe would actually be playable, its viability; I say this because “this game must provide a variety of gaming shapes” is not how OGame works: OGame provides this, but different configurations of the universe make different ways of playing much more possible / profitable than others. For instance a few examples of universes, (x2 speed + defenses to debris) makes almost impossible for turtles to play; (x5 speed) makes it difficult for fleeters that can't dedicate every day to play (casual fleeters), if they don't become part of the monopoly, they can't play without vmode; (x1 speed) makes it difficult for pure miners to grow the first months of the game; and more examples like (50 galaxies 100 systems in each galaxy), (No ACS), etc. all of them make things more easy for some ways of playing and not for others. I expand a little bit more below.

      Imperor wrote:

      Sure?? please, think about it... Where is the balance there? fleet needs one hore or more to attack anybody and you have mines production x10... that would be around 70M per day.

      Again, the proposal is not an (x10 mines + x1 fleet) universe, it's (x10 mines + x1 universe + 110 fields maximum) you can't leave that third factor out of the equation. The intention is that the third factor, planet size, balances the universe.

      Imperor wrote:

      Yes, people has to made fleet because the can't do anything else when they fill up all planets, but first they would finish all possible mines.

      That might be true. But is there a problem? On a speed universe, one reaches 15M in a matter of few months, and even if at first people dedicate more resources into mines, some would go to fleet, crushing a fleet or a bunch of cargos full of resources surely will give a boost, even when mines are affordable. But, again, why don't you think of a way to stabilize this (constructive criticism), if you think this first months are a big problem: may be 50% of fleet to debris fields would encourage fleet even in the first months?

      Imperor wrote:

      What about if someone wants to be miner? We continue without having any balance because you force all players to spend resources in something maybe they don't want to do.
      In my opinion one universe like that is forcing players to do everyone the same, at first everybody mines, and when they cannot do anything else, everybody has to do fleet to spend in something, but this game must provide a variety of gaming shapes... with this we bind players to do everyone the same strategy.

      This does not stop anyone from trying to do anything, it just makes something more appealing. And it happens that precisely that something is what mostly made this game interesting years ago. If someone wants to be a miner / researcher, it is completely possible, but the mines would become much less profitable since they will spend a lot of resources in terraformer.

      I have more to say but this is becoming too long. The questions is if this universe would enrich OGame community, if opening it will be a terrible catastrophe, then no, it wouldn't enrich the game, but I don't see if catastrophe is what this would be, and in fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that it may actually be entertaining.
    • Actually main planet gets 163 fields.

      If you apply -100 fields you get 63... how are you going to get mines + research lab to build astrophisics?


      When all planets created ok...

      Anyways, it is very extrict because miner playstyle is just impossible. And that's another game ;)

      How are you going to use your fleet if nobody sell deuterium?
    • The minus 100 fields planet size was just a way of talking, the whole planet sizes would have to be tweaked (today we can get 90 fields planet, that would make -10 fields :P). “–100 fields” was the slogan :)

      The main idea is that max planet would make too difficult to have above 20-30M mines, even when accounts get bigger than 100–200M points.

      Research labs, in particular, are going to be less needed, since the speed would be high, but yes, it would make more probable than people spend a little bit more dark matter when the game advances and people would probably star tearing down labs when not needed (that's strategy).

      How are you going to use your fleet if nobody sell deuterium?” You get around 100M–200M resources of daily production with 20M of mines (again, the slogan was “x10 mines”, but the idea behind it is “to get a decent production with small mines”), so deuterium would definitely be around. It would be like a typical x5 speed universe in that sense.
    • Making the Planets 130-150 fields max would be fine, with Terraformer and Items you could gain enough fields to make the universe last longer. Some thing that might happen trough this high eco and low fleet speed are large defenses.
      When you want an universe that is more fleet centered, a new feature of 6.2.0 might come in handy: You could do 70% Def into DF and 30% Fleet into Def. Everyone would need to build fleet and save it correctly, because large defeneses could get wiped out easilier than in normal univserses.

      Origin Admin
      OGame-Tech Chief
    • The problem with that sizes (130-150) is that it will actually possible to take mines to levels 45 38 40 or around that (at least I did some numbers some time ago, and I think I needed a planet of around 130 fields), which is kind of the opposite that this proposal wants.

      I don't see why do you need “the universe to last longer”, in fact the idea is that the universe lasts longer by removing many fields in the planets. My way of thinking is that by letting it be x1 fleet speed we would fix the problem with monopolies or bashers from fast universes, making it easy to survive for fleets than speed universes, but with (x10 mines + reduced size planets) you would keep fast growth but controlling the miners.

      And about 70% defenses to debris fields? That's killing. Personally I don't like these universes, I don't like too much defenses either, but enough to not have to connect many times a day just to fleet resources; by letting them go to debris fields it's the most unlivable universe I've played. And, not personally, but from at least experience in Spanish community, any defense to debris universe has ended completely abandoned (say rank 1 with 60M points and rank 100 with less than 2M points).
    • Dani, I don't understand your las message :S

      If you mean that this will be turtle heaven, and everyone (or at least a lot of people) will be a turtle, well, turtles don't usually survive, wether the universe is traditional or high speed, so it would be controlled. But more importantly, the question is “What makes someone choose to be a turtle?”. The number of people that want to be a turtle is considerably small; the rest of them do that as a reaction to the universe, if they keep bashed by the owners of the universe, or if they don't have enough time to survive without being farmed.

      In this universe in fact the key is to get people to survive more easily, which will (try to) reduce the abuse of defenses by reducing the factors that lead people to create bunkers.

      And again, everyone could keep up mining, the only thing is that it will be less profitable so people wold have more probability to start creating other things. For instance, to get 30M points in mines, one would have to spend around 4M in terraformers, to have 50M in mines one would have to spend 10M in terraformer (just an example, I have not calculated).

      A thing that would be interesting is that it would be a completely new experience, and we would all be blind at first. Ten years ago, people knew nothing compared to what we know today, there was much more different strategies because it wasn't know what was best with certainty (the game was young and people didn't have experience); nowadays at least the developement of a planet is basically an ordered list where people rarely take any different path. This universe (just the fact that planets will be eventually filled) will create the same sort of situation, were new strategies would arise.

      In any case, talking about monopolies… I will stop coming here everyday to let others add answers and I hope this thread stays less monopolized :D
    • Imperor, NoMoreAngel, the author said :

      " Equation is not x10 eco + x1 fleet, but x10 eco + x1 fleet + Small Planets ".

      Its an important point, but there is also another important point :

      IT'S A PROPOSAL FOR AN ORIGINAL SPECIAL UNIVERSE.

      So the arguments like " you force everybody to play fleets ", or " you want nobody plays mines ", its not true because as far as, for instance, I never play the universe with big speed, the players who wants heavy mines will not play this new type of universe.

      So we force and block nobody, no type of play with this... We propose a new way to play for players who want.
    • As iguypouf says, this is a special universe. In the same sense prOgame was special a few years ago (or may be not at that level, but each first speed universe in each community). That's a good point.

      About the planet sizes, just to clarify, the “minus one hundred” was just a way of saying, taking the official sizes, here's a manual example, of course, GameForge should decide, but I the only thing important change from the official table would be the maximum size.

      I think the current restrictions that apply into the current distribution are mainly that lower positioned planets have sightly higher sizes to encourage relocating to cold positions, even position 3 is a nice choice to colonize and then relocate to position 15. In this universe there should be less differences between one or another position, but still people would fight for places where they get higher planets.

      (Do not take this completely seriously.)

      Position 1: Maximum 172 → Maximum 95
      Position 2: Maximum 176 → Maximum 99
      Position 3: Maximum 182 → Maximum 102
      Position 4: Maximum 208 → Maximum 107
      Position 5: Maximum 232 → Maximum 109
      Position 6: Maximum 242 → Maximum 111
      Position 7: Maximum 248 → Maximum 113
      Position 8: Maximum 252 → Maximum 116
      Position 9: Maximum 246 → Maximum 112
      Position 10: Maximum 232 → Maximum 109
      Position 11: Maximum 210 → Maximum 106
      Position 12: Maximum 186 → Maximum 105
      Position 13: Maximum 172 → Maximum 96
      Position 14: Maximum 168 → Maximum 93
      Position 15: Maximum 164 → Maximum 90

      A few extra points that might convince GameForge is the Dark Matter usage, I think that it might not be low, because, e.g., low level research labs might put them in a position where they “need” to spend more dark matter; plus accounts would grow more horizontally (astrophysics) than vertically (mines); other planet items would be more used (extra fields, which, by the way, should be accordingly resized, say they give +3, +6 an +9 respectively, for instance, because +15 would be too high); plus, since the growth speed would be like a fast universe, there would be more dark matter used; and, since the plan is to make the universe livable, but being high speed growth, big fleets would have much more mobility than in current traditional x1 speed universe, where moving a 90M fleet is a high risk of loosing tons of deuterium, which would lead to more dark matter paid by fleeters.

      Of course, people with good strategy could live without dark matter, but the vast majority of average players would spend some money.

      And an extra not perfect but acceptable point: newbie players could survive for a long time because in an x1 fleet speed one can survive on its own if it doesn't have mistakes. So, in the worst case scenario, it would have more activity because newbie players would like it because they would survive (with fleet) longer.