Pinned Suggestions Area - Allow discussion in native language ?

Francolino · Jul 27th 2011, 11:33pm

Hello,

As you know, it's possible in the FAQ area to talk in other languages when they change the prefix. See Discussions in native languages

What do you think : Should we allow this for the suggestions area ? The first posting should contain an english summary of the idea of course.

Your comments, please.

ZmeryDwagon · Jul 27th 2011, 11:51pm

Many people can't speak good english, and their feedback is also important. But in the end, it would have to be translated back to english so what they said is also understood by all. It has pros and cons, but I think it has more pros than cons.

PitA · Jul 28th 2011, 1:18am

In my opinion is the local board a good place to have discussions in native language on suggestions. A translated summary can be posted on Origin to discuss it outside your community...
On the local boards you have a bigger group to discuss it in your native language...

Native language is for the local board, except where there is no counterpart on the local board

the1337g33k · Jul 28th 2011, 3:04am

I see the value in allowing such discussions. As long as there is an English summary so we all know somewhat about whats going on in there I have no issues with it.

Chernobyl · Jul 28th 2011, 3:26am

I agree with Zmery .. their feedback is important ..

as long as they have english summary in the post somewhere .. there is no problem ..

PitA · Jul 28th 2011, 9:51am

But how do you see this ?
E.g. There is a russian suggestion and an english summary is posted with it.. There will be a discussion in russian which most of the visitors won't understand... They see an english summary of the suggestion, but the discussion is in russian. So they cannot give feedback...
If you want to discuss the suggestion in russian, it's better to post it on the russian board... You have a lot more players there to discuss it in russian... If it's a good suggestion, the russian IP-team can translate it to english and post it on this board... Then all others can add their feedback...
What is the profit to discuss it in russian on Origin from the beginning ? You get less feedback, because less players see it...

the1337g33k · Jul 28th 2011, 10:25am

I see the value in potentially having more people that don't speak english (or speak it well) contributing ideas.

In any case google translate does a pretty good job of translating (for me its built into chrome and automatically does translation on the fly).
Translation software is so much better now then even a few years ago (anyone remember babelfish?) and is also so easy to find and use its just not hard to translate non-english into english.
Thats why I personally have no problem with it. Views will certainly vary on this, but for me I have no issues with it.

eXecute · Jul 28th 2011, 11:36am

I guess the best is to translate it before posting and not just a summary. It is really annoying to follow a discussion switching languages whole time and waiting for the English translation. I agree to PitA: Makes no sense to summarize, English should be maintained. It is counterproductive for the discussion. Best is to ask someone to translate, much more people are able to speak English then any other native language.

Francolino · Jul 28th 2011, 12:19pm

A few comments :

From the beginning it's allowed to post in native anywhere here in Origin ... See Overview & Rules

The main language of this board is English, but other languages are welcome.
- You can add your native language in each post as a second part, preferably in spoiler tags.
- In areas like the Localization Area native languages are allowed, please use the relevant language prefix in such cases.

What we should to : Add the link to this thread in the overview and improve the text as a "very short guide" how to post in origin - And add translations. See Translation tools & websites

About threads complete in native language :

This quote from PitA is very good , i follow this line from the beginning - "origin don't replace national thins"

PitA wrote:

Native language is for the local board, except where there is no counterpart on the local board

But we offer those board parts as well , IF the national want it. For example they can forward all Fan Art things to origin.
We can do the same for the suggestions area. In this case, we should add another sub board "Suggestions in native languages" (one for all, with prefixes from the communities, who want it)

Regards,

And thanks for your replies :)

ZmeryDwagon · Jul 28th 2011, 7:29pm

I liked our yesterday's conversation in IRC (between me, Chernobyl, Red-Dragon and Francolino). Some important parts of it:

Display Spoiler

I think this explains how I feel about the whole thing. IF they can't post in their own language (even if they need to translate in english using google translate on a spoiler or such), they'll lose motivation. Origin is not a replacement for national boards, but it's still a open-for-all board and if someone has an idea that got good feedback in their original board, they should "defend" their idea here aswell. If they get dependent on the representantive only, their idea will lose strength. It's lçike only one person will be saying "hey, here's a good idea". If others come and explain why they liked the idea and why they want it implemented ingame, the job is much easier for all. But they have to feel confortable posting. If they don't understand english, they just won't come. If they are allowed to post in their language, even if translation is needed (from google translate for example, not perfect but...), they'll like it more. I understand PitA's point of view. If they don't speak english and should understand the discussions, others don't speak portuguese/german/french/russian/whatever and would like to understand what they say also. BUT... why not try and see if it works?

@Francolino, totally agreed, that topic helps a lot (the translation one). Oh, and I thought about translating the most important topics to portuguese aaswell hehe... (like overview, rules, that sorta things) so PT/BR speaking users understand where they can post, what they can post, how this board works... etc... what say you?

Francolino · Jul 28th 2011, 9:05pm

There's something very important to have in mind :

Nearly all people from germany and also from the netherlands speaks english of course. It's the first foreign language there since ages. And german / dutch / english are finally close together. If someone understand "old german" or "old dutch" they understand english as well.

This is the reason why at first romanian based languages or russian likes this idea - most of the player or team member speak english well.

Francolino · Jul 28th 2011, 9:12pm

Well, this discussions becomes much more interesting than i thought ....

I move it now (soon) to the team area so all ogame team member can read and post.

Kamil · Jul 28th 2011, 10:13pm

well there are 2 point of here and i am with both.
The first is that ppl lose interest if they cant understand english and cant give their opinion coz of the english restrictions.
So allowing native languages to be used will give the tea; better feedback and more important opinion and ideas from the local baord...
But also on the other hand, using google translater or any other translater is seriously a pain, i never was able to understand a word after i translate a text into english or french or any other language, coz neither the grammar or structure or anything stays intact after this sort of trnaslations, so in opposite of getting more feedback and incase if discussion in a native language, you will lose other feedback from others since they cant understand all the discusion and feel excluded from it and not post anything.
It is a 2 sided option, i am agasint it for the reason that i dont like google translator coz i never understood a thing in it after translation, but if someone could give me a better more reliable translator i have no problem with it.
But as someone above said, maybe creating a sub board with prefix of languages incase someone wants a native language discussion than no problem as well

this is mu 2 cents about all this

PS: sorry for typo and errors, but using my phone to type all this coz my pc is dead

SlowMotion · Jul 28th 2011, 10:24pm

I think the discussions MUST be in english.
Otherwise we will get several big problems (after short time)

- No non-native-speaker can see whether a poster flout someone.
- Several discussions can fall into a language which only few persons can speak => Even GF will not read them !
- good ideas can become lost, because nobody can read the language, possible also with a atrong accent.

Possible solutions :
- Require at least an google-translation to english by the poster as FIRST part of the post.
- Better become an manually translated from an english speaking person which understands the native language.
- For short posts the google translator will do (used by the poster), otherwise many persons must translate it to english to understand.

I dont want to expulse an non-english speaking person. They HAVE good ideas and opinions.
But the common language is english.

Otherwise I can also say, "I dont want to speak in english, I want to speak german". => Only a few persons can understand the thread, all other will be lost

In Fan-Art section the native language is ok, because several art is also depending on the country.

But the ideas about ogame are international, and we are an international board.

We dont want to replace the local boards (as Francolino said), so I belief we should request english.

In case of a person which can not speak any english we can give the chance to find an "translator". Either google, or better an native speaker with english skills.

marshen · Jul 28th 2011, 10:37pm

not everyone has chrome or wants to manually translate the text bei translate.google.com (and yes i like my browser because it hasn't got a translate feature because i dont need at all).

so i'm against pure foreign language posts. same arguments as slowmotion.

Kebab · Jul 28th 2011, 11:50pm

I'm also against pure foreign language posts, Origin is for supporting all communities and for improving the contact between us and GF. For this to be properly achieved then we must be able to communicate properly with each other. For me the only way to do this is to use a single common language so all can participate.
If we allow pure foreign posts then a vast majority of people will be instantly alienated and not be able to properly contribute with the idea.

Red-Dragon · Jul 29th 2011, 5:51pm

Discussions in some native language are hard to understand. If it stays on English then everybody can understand and participate in the discussion.

Valent · Jul 30th 2011, 6:10am

i go with at least an English translation of the suggestion .
reasons, all of the above.

If a proposer has no English skills he/she can contact the national representative who will find a solution to this --> here comes the role of a national representative, acting like an ambassador for his community , or else, why do they exists

Kramagon · Jul 30th 2011, 4:38pm

Valent wrote:

i go with at least an English translation of the suggestion .
reasons, all of the above.

If a proposer has no English skills he/she can contact the national representative who will find a solution to this --> here comes the role of a national representative, acting like an ambassador for his community , or else, why do they exists

Nice comment Valent. Totally agree with this point highlighted.

asterix2 · Jul 30th 2011, 8:21pm

Kebab wrote:

For me the only way to do this is to use a single common language so all can participate.

That's not really true ... For me it's a big effort to speak in english ... and very often I realize that I participate well below my ability on this board (misinterpretation in peculiar). But is there a good solution ?

If we allow pure foreign posts then a vast majority of people will be instantly alienated and not be able to properly contribute with the idea.

Of course but if a person can translate without error very quickly I think it would not be a problem and plus we learn to know us better with our specificities.

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