Importants things of this discution :

<Francolino> well, back to <Francolino>you all know : next step is to start the public test server
<Francolino> when this server starts, i think they test it for a few month
<Francolino> and before this server starts they need "some" or "some more" weeks

<Francolino> believe me, wth is someone who is interested to talk and think about changes and improvements
<Francolino> loli about fleet escape, we have all the same opinion
<Francolino> for me, this basic idea is good ..
<Francolino> but not for ogame as it is


<Francolino> the chance is about 100% that this comes NOT in old universes
<Francolino> as i told, maybe they update the same version
<Francolino> but in this case, they change the settings to "deactivate" it
<Francolino> so ... this new feature is NOT for old universes as it is

<WeTeHa|Busy> at least I read all in .de and .org and let the summarize the context of other coms...so please be sure I know all the pain with it ^^
<WeTeHa|Busy> and especially about fleet escape, at this point I really try to change some thingys
<WeTeHa|Busy> let me say our gamedesign think it is a great suggestion...and I don´t believe we will remove it completely, but sure that we can change some settings in it (a bit for upcoming server and completely for old server if we add it there)

Complete discussion :

<Francolino> ah welcome .)
<Francolino> the PM from naynay :
<Francolino> I am turning to you to seek informations concerning the merging of older universes, please do read my message until the end before giving me the "usual" answers.
<Francolino> The new version has been announced even though these "improvements" were not supposed to be implemented before the merge of older universes (as was said in November 2010). Therefore I find quite strange that nothing seems to be happening in this regard (the merging), not even any news concerning the tests which have been completed since 10 days ago approximately.
<Francolino> I'm hoping for some bits of useful information, and not some standardised answer to keep me happy.
<Francolino> Regards,
<Francolino> well, in short words .. the GF developer works on both versions, uni fusion 2.0 and protection of weaker users, 3.0
<Francolino> there are two developer teams
<loli> one team on each version ?
<Francolino> yes
<Francolino> uni fusion is at the end, they fix the last errors
<loli> do you have eta for both versions at this point ?
<Francolino> and version 3.0 need some month
<Francolino> you all know : next step is to start the public test server
<loli> for 2.0 ?
<Francolino> No no :)
<loli> ok
<Francolino> please i talk only about 3.0 now
<Francolino> but this helps you
<loli> but will there be new servers opened before implementation of 3.0 ?
<Francolino> to get an overview
<Francolino> Hmmmmm good questions
<loli> yes and thank you for taking the time to help us answer our players
<Francolino> well, back to <Francolino>you all know : next step is to start the public test server
<loli> we appreciate
<Francolino> when this server starts, i think they test it for a few month
<Francolino> and before this server starts they need "some" or "some more" weeks
<Francolino> i don't know
<loli> will it be normal speed ?
<loli> this test server ?
<Francolino> in a summary, i think there there are coming next new servers before version 3.0 is ready
<loli> oh ok
<Francolino> I have no specification
<loli> that's good new too ^^
<Francolino> but normal speed is senseless
<Francolino> loli, this is only my thought / opinion
<Francolino> i can't promise you anything
<loli> cause the protection needs to be tested in order to understand its long term consequences I'd think
<Francolino> but i try to give the best answer
<Francolino> loli correct
<loli> okay
<Francolino> and this is the basic thing for all those complaints
<Francolino> the current settings are "to check them out"
<loli> okay
<benneb> x4 and DM like others test server, maybe
<Francolino> hmm i think faster
<loli> so there is hope for some adjustments
<Francolino> but lets see
<Francolino> Of course
<Francolino> Protection of weaker user - Discussion
<loli> but can we hope for more than "cosmetic" adjustments ?
<loli> something more than tweaking the settings ? ^^
<Francolino> this link to the ogame.de board is a very very important quote
<Francolino> please read it
<Francolino> wth says, that all setting are changeable
<Francolino> and yes, more than cosmetic
<loli> okay
<Francolino> - höherer Verbrauch bei Flucht
<Francolino> - Def (prozentual) mit einrechnen -> Add (a percentage) of the defense in the calculation
<Francolino> - Bunkerproblem "irgendwie" lösen -> Solve the turtle problem in any other way
<Francolino> - generell andere Verhältnisse -> Change the current setting (1:10 attack ratio, 1:5 escape ratio etc ...)
<Francolino> - evtl. Schutz nur bis Obergrenze -> Give a limit for the protection feature
<Francolino> - ...
<Francolino> i translated only the most important parts
<Francolino> but this are the current things he has in mind
<loli> that is somewhat reassuring
<loli> however the whole fleet escape thing remains the main concern
<loli> our players have a hard time seeing which adjustments could possibly make it palatable :x
<Francolino> believe me, wth is someone who is interested to talk and think about changes and improvements
<loli> I'm glad to hear that
<Francolino> loli about fleet escape, we have all the same opinion
<Francolino> for me, this basic idea is good ..
<Francolino> but not for ogame as it is
<loli> can I ask you why you think it is good ?
<Francolino> read both :)
<loli> I really have a hard time seeing its rationale in term of roleplay or gameplay :/
<Francolino> There are to many needed changes or problems, to use this escape feature in ogame
<loli> \o/
<Francolino> Why it's good ..
<Francolino> IN MIND ogame is not ogame as it is
<Francolino> for me the basis problem of ogame are two things
<Francolino> 1. The "top" player can kill all other player - and they do it. There is NO chance for the middle player
<Francolino> without middle player any universe dies
<Francolino> cause : the top player find only beginner as target .. boring
<loli> I think that's a bit extreme and wouldn't the new protection take care of this without adding the fleet escape ?
<Naynay> but middle player not a best chance with the new version (sorry for english :o )
<Francolino> naynay you are wrong
<Francolino> the little player are now "only" for the middle player
<Francolino> cause the top ones can't kill them
<loli> I agree with the necessity to keep middle players but the protection can take care of this
<Francolino> correct
<loli> the fleet escapes adds a sort of "lottery" aspect to the game
<Francolino> correct
<Francolino> i agree with you
<loli> which is basically *wrong*
<loli> ogame is about strategy + luck not luck only
<loli> here you give too much weight to luck
<Francolino> <Francolino>IN MIND ogame is not ogame as it is <- please keep this in mind
<Naynay> creativity loli ... creativity
<Francolino> the fleet escaping makes it all to complicated
<Francolino> and, cause of all the other changes it's not really needed
<loli> also implementing SO MANY changes in one version...
<loli> not a good idea nayway
<Francolino> hmmm i disagree
<Francolino> it's much more bad to change those things step by step#
<Francolino> it's good to find out a good new gameplay
<Francolino> but let me finish.
<loli> as long as it is good ^^
<loli> and gameplay not lottery :p
<loli> ok sry ^^
<Francolino> fleet escaping might be sensefull for a game.
<Francolino> you call it "lottery".. but
<Francolino> what's the problem of top player ?
<Francolino> at last, the game becomes boring
<Francolino> it's eays for them to kill nearly everyone, it's routine
<Francolino> a game need details where the player get a little bit angry
<loli> beleive me wasting 200M deuterium because of fleet escape won't add any thrill :x
<loli> just disgust :x
<Francolino> THAT is the problem in ogame
<Francolino> any try needs much to much deut
<Naynay> ogame is not travian :|
<Francolino> and this is why i say, this change is not sensefull for ogame as it is
<Francolino> so, for me they have to change more than only adding the feature to escape fleets
<loli> and do you have the ears of the powers that be on this ? ^^
<Francolino> well, i know they read the summaries of all those discussions and threads
<Francolino> or read them by themself
<Francolino> in general, i have the same "power" like any other admin
<loli> 'cause players are quite desperate at this point about the whole thing
<Francolino> i know
<loli> they need for their concerns to be HEARD
<loli> and answered
<loli> they need to feel there is a discussion
<loli> not just GF deciding without listening to their customers
<Francolino> well, in ogame.de there IS a good discussion
<Francolino> yes, i think so
<Francolino> but i copy the interesting part
<Naynay> it's done thx
<WeTeHa|Busy> at least I read all in .de and .org and let the summarize the context of other coms...so please be sure I know all the pain with it ^^
<Francolino> :)
<Francolino> ok, live is better :P
<loli> thx wth
<WeTeHa|Busy> and especially about fleet escape, at this point I really try to change some thingys
<benneb> hello
<loli> realistically, is there any chance of seeing it simply abandonned ? :x
<Francolino> not sure loli
<Francolino> for me, i hope so :P
<benneb> just remove "lotery" :/
<loli> i mean if even wth himself does not like it...
<loli> who's in charge ? :x
<loli> who must we convince ? :s
<Francolino> well, we should collect good, factual discussions and arguments
<Francolino> that's all what he need
<WeTeHa|Busy> let me say our gamedesign think it is a great suggestion...and I don´t believe we will remove it completely, but sure that we can change some settings in it (a bit for upcoming server and completely for old server if we add it there)
<loli> that's what we're trying to do atm on fr board
<Francolino> And for ogame.de i can say, many people figured out sensefull details
<loli> does the gamedesign team actually play ogame and read boards ? :x
<Naynay> if application on new universe is bad, few players , the project could be cancelled ? (sorry , again :p )
<Francolino> Naynay, the complete project not. But i think they will change it then
<Naynay> oki
<Francolino> the new feature is in general very good and gives ogame a chance for the future.
<loli> another question : what would be the chances of *not* implementing these changes in old unis at all ?
<Naynay> only future yes ...
<Francolino> naynay, yes, and this is why it comes only in NEW universes
<Naynay> yes
<Francolino> with this knowledge, it's easy to believe that this is the truth
<Naynay> if application done all univers
<Naynay> Ogame .fr is dead
<loli> let new servers be new servers
<Francolino> the chance is about 100% that this comes NOT in old universes
<loli> omg thx for this :x
<Naynay> good
<Francolino> as i told, maybe they update the same version
<Francolino> but in this case, they change the settings to "deactivate" it
<Francolino> so ... this new feature is NOT for old universes as it is
<Francolino> this is now my opinion ..
<loli> it should not be for old universes *at all* because impossible to test in old unis
<Francolino> maybe it's good to activate it "a little"
<loli> even with changed parameters
<Francolino> for example give a ratio of 1:100
<loli> the test will be on a new server so ok maybe it can be proven to work
<Francolino> correct loli
<Francolino> yes
<loli> but how could you possibly test it on old servers ?
<Francolino> not possible
<loli> unless by "sacrificing" one ? ^^
<Francolino> this is the next reason why it comes sure only to new ones
<Francolino> the gameplay change is to big
<Krama> and don't forget the test server (so important to test this feautures and understand well the whole project
<Naynay> after fusion , the universe (marge ?) will be a new universe ?
<Francolino> naynay i don't got you
<Krama> xD
<Naynay> o:
<Krama> if
<Krama> the merged uni will be considered as a new uni
<Krama> and for that reason
<Krama>this features will be applied
<Krama> isn't Naynay?
<Naynay> loli ? :D
<Francolino> if, old unis are old unis
<Naynay> oki Francolino
<Francolino> no matter if you merge them or not
<Francolino> old means the ranks and points from the player
<loli> basically putting these features on old servers (merged or not) even with other parameters would be implementing the whole thing blind
<loli> it's totally not good process ^^
<Francolino> loli there is no decision about this
<Francolino> so .. let's see
<Francolino> cause of all this things there is really only ONE way .. They update only new universes with this feature and see over a longer time how it works
<loli> yes
<Francolino> IF the GF change something in old universes, this happens in many many month
<loli> a very long time would be necessary actually :x
<Francolino> AND based on a lot of experiences
<Francolino> yes , and version 3.0 get a long time
<loli> a 1 year old uni has nothing to do with a 4 years old one
<loli> btw can we talk to our players about what has been said here ? (meaning is this conversation DPAed or not ? ^^)
<Francolino> loli, all those parameter are changeable
<Francolino> for me, we can post this channel log
<Naynay> thx for discusion , i go work . By all o/
<Francolino> If you all agree, i check this all and improve it.
<loli> players hate to be kept in the dark and rumors are worse than truths
<Francolino> ciao naynay
<loli> okay
<Francolino> loli we know
<Naynay> i dont post the log , just idea
<Francolino> No, i do it
<Francolino> after a short talk with wth
<loli> okay and we'll translate it then
<Naynay> oki
<Francolino> fine .
<Naynay> good bye o/
<loli> in any case thanks a lot for this meeting
<Krama> no loli, thx to you ^_^
<loli> it can help us address our players' concerns