Hello guys,

I would like to expose you a very good idea that I have read in the french board [reference:board.ogame.fr/board613-ogame-…intergalactique-a-locker/?]

This guy kendiraton proposed to have new ability with researches named: "Improvement of the Intergalactic Research Network". This new feature gives you the rights to launch multiple concurrent researches at same time (but in different labo of course)

Why?

Because searching has:
- Double cost for each level
- Decreasing time with RRI is not as faster as the nanite build
- When you need to wait months for one research finished...That is unbelievable and truly despairing for the next level
- At high level in game...you have got very lot of resources to launch research but the time you waist is too much for every people.

How ?

That is very simple: my main parameters are:
1) the number of laboratory I can combine their selves with the RRI technology
2) the number of colony I can have with the astrophysics technology
3) the graviton level

The first two parameter are based on kendiraton initial proposition and I just add graviton level and new balancing of 1) and 2).

Here is my new formula:

rounded bottom ( [ GRAVITON * [RRI + 1] ] /[ rounded bottom (ASTRO + 3) / 2 ] )

EXPLANATION:
[RRI + 1] = is the number of laboratory I can combine with my actual RRI level (ex: RRI = 8, I can have 9 labo merged)
[ rounded bottom (ASTRO + 3) / 2 ] = is the number of colony I can have
GRAVITON = the graviton level

Ok, how, let me explain it with my words.

Advantages:

1) The number of concurrent researches will be still "low" what ever you plan to do. There are no sense is you can do easily 10 researches at the same time.

2) This feature required that you have at least the same number of colonies and labo capabilities. In other case, you cannot activate this functionality. Except if you change your graviton level...but it has its limit also.

3) Beginners do not require this feature because among of time for technology at this level is ridiculous. And actually, you cannot unlock it until you have got the graviton technology. So you need at least 2 or 3 M of points. The game is "still" fair.

4) Miners that have less number of case in their colonies will be perhaps interested to increase their RRI. And that is the same thing for raider. This functionality is usable for both.


In addition, I think that the vacation mode must be allowed even you have researches in progress...when you see the time remaining for some of them...we can talk about "delay" researching but I prefer that the researches were not "affected" by MV.


Examples:

1)
ASTRO = 17 (10 planets unlocked)
RRI = 9 (10 labos)
GRAVITON = 1

1.(9+1)/10 = 1 = 1 additional research slot

2)
ASTRO = 17 (10 planets unlocked)
RRI = 10 (11 labos)
GRAVITON = 1

1.(10+1)/10 = 1,1 = 1 additional research slot

3)
ASTRO = 17 (10 planets unlocked)
RRI = 8 (9 labos)
GRAVITON = 2

2.(8+1) /10 = 1,8 = 1 additional reseach slot

4)
ASTRO = 17 (10 planets unlocked)
RRI = 9 (10 labos)
GRAVITON = 2

2.(9+1) /10 = 2 additional reseach slots

The last point I don't explore is the cost for that "new" feature...but I need some help for this kind of simulation. Thank you to read me. And thanks to kendiraton.

Sorry by advance for my poor english and my many faults. I hope you can still understand me.

The idea itself is good but I don't like the formula.
1) Graviton technology is overestimated here. I don't like that in practice its level decides how much I can research simultaneously. IRR & GRAVITON should rather replace each other in this formula. Also notice that if Graviton = 0, the formula doesn't work.
2) Possibility of multiple reseaches doesn't compensate low number of colonies (which is required, if you can't research Graviton technology yet). So that other value should be used, concerning levels of Labs.

I'd like the following assumptions to create the final formula:
- the additional slots to research are unlocked by construction of certain amount of Research Labs levels in total (possibly modifiable by certain researches / buildings / etc.)
- the technologies available to multiple research mode are also unlocked by fulfilling some requirements, increasing with their levels; again, they may concern some technologies, buildings etc.
- those requirements also depend on what category (or: categories) of technologies you actually research (combat, drives, "energy" or advanced (specialized) technologies - easy to imagine what would fit to each other); the purpose of this is to prevent simultaneous development of certain most useful technologies (e.g. shields combined with armor and weapons)

Write what you think about it. I can prepare more detailed examples if you like or still don't understand those ideas.

I'm the guy who wrote the proposition on the french board (very long ago, before the astro technology came up...). I've tried to get it updated with the new version...

My formula (I don't say it's the best, but at least it was consistent when we had only 9 planets max) was:
- If [ RRIG + 2 ] - [ rounded bottom [(ASTRO + 3) / 2] ] <=1, no additional research slot (i.e. no change)
- Else, Nb research slots (on distinct labs) = [ RRIG + 2 ] - [ rounded bottom [(ASTRO + 3) / 2] ]

I didn't use the graviton technology. However, I don't reject this idea...

The problem was that players would beneficiate from this improvement only if they didn't want to upgrade their level of Astrophysics... They have to choose between having the possibility of launching multiple researches in parallel (and save research time) OR having a new planet... My formula couldn't manage both at the same time.

If you have any idea, it woult be great!

The idea itself is good but I don't like the formula.
1) Graviton technology is overestimated here. I don't like that in practice its level decides how much I can research simultaneously. IRR & GRAVITON should rather replace each other in this formula. Also notice that if Graviton = 0, the formula doesn't work.

If graviton is equal to 0...that is the goal...you cannot perform simultaneous researches. I think that this technology is the most practical to be allow to do that...How could you do simultaneous researches when all of your laboratories working together for 1 research ? Only graviton can allow you with black hole for example. But actually, you right when you said that graviton determines how much research you can do simultaneous. (Only when you have rich a good level of IRR of course)

2) Possibility of multiple reseaches doesn't compensate low number of colonies (which is required, if you can't research Graviton technology yet). So that other value should be used, concerning levels of Labs.

I don't said that, I only said that is you have less number of cases on each colony you have...you actually don't develop IRR of course. But with this formula, you will do it. (In most case with raider and some kind of miner) I mean...they won't build labs in all colonies.

Cyberdemon wrote:

I'd like the following assumptions to create the final formula:
- the additional slots to research are unlocked by construction of certain amount of Research Labs levels in total (possibly modifiable by certain researches / buildings / etc.)
- the technologies available to multiple research mode are also unlocked by fulfilling some requirements, increasing with their levels; again, they may concern some technologies, buildings etc.
- those requirements also depend on what category (or: categories) of technologies you actually research (combat, drives, "energy" or advanced (specialized) technologies - easy to imagine what would fit to each other); the purpose of this is to prevent simultaneous development of certain most useful technologies (e.g. shields combined with armor and weapons)

Write what you think about it. I can prepare more detailed examples if you like or still don't understand those ideas.

ok, but if you unlock multiple research with the amoung of labs, what will you do with gamers that have low number of case /or cols and for who they must decide to develop mines or labs ? my formula takes care of them. But in fact, it is a good idea I think.

For your second point, my purpose is to allow multiple useful technologies xd I don't plan to develop unuseful technologies. Don't you ? I keep it for people who want to be TOP1 in research.

I don't avoid your idea, but I think that it will be more easily if you can deveop yours ? Can you give us a new formula to work with ?






--------------------------

I'm the guy who wrote the proposition on the french board (very long ago, before the astro technology came up...). I've tried to get it updated with the new version...

My formula (I don't say it's the best, but at least it was consistent when we had only 9 planets max) was:
- If [ RRIG + 2 ] - [ rounded bottom [(ASTRO + 3) / 2] ] <=1, no additional research slot (i.e. no change)
- Else, Nb research slots (on distinct labs) = [ RRIG + 2 ] - [ rounded bottom [(ASTRO + 3) / 2] ]

I didn't use the graviton technology. However, I don't reject this idea...

The problem was that players would beneficiate from this improvement only if they didn't want to upgrade their level of Astrophysics... They have to choose between having the possibility of launching multiple researches in parallel (and save research time) OR having a new planet... My formula couldn't manage both at the same time.

Yes I can confirm this xd

Actually, the most important problem with your formula is that you MUST choose between both. And for me, my choice is done quickly. It is why I took the graviton in this version of the formula.

But for sure, probably there is another way to do multiple researches. But I dislike very much the idea to take in consideration useless technologies like (Laser, Ion,etc...) because it is a no sense. Those technologies are useless and only gamers in the TOP research develop them. It is good for them if they want...in addition, you need to explain how laser,ion can provoke a crack time/black hole or what ever you want.

But you can propose a formula with those useless technologies...I swear I will think on it.


Thanks to you for your comment.

Another simple approach for multiple researches is that each planet can start a research in parallel.

If the user has the Research Network in level x the user can select the combined research labs which are used for this research.

So the user can define which labs will be combined. This labs can NOT start a research in parallel.

We will not need special formulas, or make it complex.

Just allow selection of planets/research labs which should be used for the research to start (planet with resources must be one of the selection).

SlowMotion wrote:

Another simple approach for multiple researches is that each planet can start a research in parallel.

If the user has the Research Network in level x the user can select the combined research labs which are used for this research.

So the user can define which labs will be combined. This labs can NOT start a research in parallel.

We will not need special formulas, or make it complex.

Just allow selection of planets/research labs which should be used for the research to start (planet with resources must be one of the selection).

I totally agree with your idea.

I think it's wrong the way it is.
Why can't every lab work on some research ? Can't all shipyards work concurrently ?

This could be done by adding a check box for each lab on the research menu.
Players would be able to chose which labs will research. No complex formula needed.

For instance a player with IRN 2 and 9 planets could do one of the following:
- 3 researches with 3 labs each;
- 2 researches with 3 labs, 1 with two labs and one with one lab;
- 2 researches with 3 labs and 3 with one lab;
- 1 research with 3 labs and 3 researches with 2 labs
...


I can't see any disadvantage, except the fact that this probably requires a lot of work to implement.
Research Lab, IRN and Technocrat would still be useful because they are the only way needed reduce research time.
This would be a great help to low level players because More Astrophysics = More research.
To the top players it would also be good but not as important because those already have IRN in a high level (note that IRN 8 and 9 labs with with sequential researches can do the same as 9 labs with concurrent researches, but the inverse is not true).

with your proposition, you take out the benefice of RRI when you do simultanious researches...Because you increase the time to do one research. So, Who will do concurrent researches if they must wait more time to complete both of them ?

I think with RRI you mean the Intergalactic Research Network.

If you have the Intergalactic Research Network you can research on the same technic on more than one colony together.

So you can e.g. research a longtime research (e.g. astrophysics) and parallel start a research of hyperspace drive.

Alternatively you can build a research lab to the next level on planets which are not used to research.

sedilbur wrote:

with your proposition, you take out the benefice of RRI when you do simultanious researches...Because you increase the time to do one research. So, Who will do concurrent researches if they must wait more time to complete both of them ?

No It doesn't. IRN is still important with one exception.
Maybe I didn't explained it right.


As I have explained, if you have RRI 2 and 9 planets you can chose to make 3 researches at full speed by grouping 3 labs for each research.
This means 3 researches without increasing the time.
The time for each research would be calculated from the levels of the chosen research labs according to the same formula of research time we have now.

The only exceptions is when RRI is the same as the number of colonies in that case this brings no benefits. But this lack of benefit only affects a small portion of top players, so this feature balances the game since the low level players are the most benefited by this feature.

SlowMotion wrote:

Alternatively you can build a research lab to the next level on planets which are not used to research.

I hope this will change even if none of the proposed ideas are accepted.
If there is a lab that's not being used one should be able to upgrade it.

sedilbur wrote:

ok, but if you unlock multiple research with the amoung of labs, what will you do with gamers that have low number of case /or cols and for who they must decide to develop mines or labs ?

There's another barrier - costs... so that players who are far behind, should be still able to chase opponents.

sedilbur wrote:

For your second point, my purpose is to allow multiple useful technologies xd I don't plan to develop unuseful technologies. Don't you ? I keep it for people who want to be TOP1 in research.

Until they are practically useless, of course. But this may always change... With my limitations, I assume that sooner of later they will get some reason(s) to be developed, and in this case this idea should work well (unless they give extremely useful bonus).

Link wrote:

As I have explained, if you have RRI 2 and 9 planets you can chose to make 3 researches at full speed by grouping 3 labs for each research.
This means 3 researches without increasing the time.
The time for each research would be calculated from the levels of the chosen research labs according to the same formula of research time we have now.

The only exceptions is when RRI is the same as the number of colonies in that case this brings no benefits. But this lack of benefit only affects a small portion of top players, so this feature balances the game since the low level players are the most benefited by this feature.

Well, all depends on the results you want to achieve by unlocking multiple researches.
Your suggestion actually would help only those players:
- who are many levels of IRN (and other technologies) behind top players
- who have dozens of planets and no chances of taking them all into use of IRN (really hypothetical)
- who have plenty of resources and want to make use of "Tech Save" for them

What is the point of implementing this? As I've written above, there's another barrier - costs... That's enough for opponents to reach technology records for the universe, sooner or later. They need nothing more. For me, it's not the priority.

I was thinking about such rules for multiple researches for which increased research speed would be at first place. Instead of making strange, complicated formulas to decrease research time, just let the players to research more, as a reward for reaching some "stage" of development for his planets.

My suggestion:
Let's say that certain Research Lab level makes it ready to work with simultaneous research. I will call such lab "fully developed" (FD). IRN level and the number of colonies doesn't matter for multiple researches at all (it is already deciding for speed of single research).

However, players would need certain number of FD labs to allow start another (simultaneous) research. If all labs are free, you may still chose whatever you wish (as currently). Moreover, different technologies would require different number of FD labs in total. Here's where categories appear. I used them for my other idea: Rewards for technological domination but I see no obstacles to use them also here:

• Primary technologies: Energy, Laser, Ion, Plasma and Hyperspace (all of "useless")
  
• Advanced technologies: Computer, Espionage, Graviton, Astrophysics and IRN
  
• Drive technologies
  
• Combat technologies
  
  
• Each 3 FD labs would allow you to upgrade 1 Primary Technology simultaneously.
  
• Each 4 FD labs would allow you to upgrade 1 Advanced Technology simultaneously.
  
• Each 5 FD labs would allow you to upgrade 1 Drive Technology simultaneously.
  
• Each 6 FD labs would allow you to upgrade 1 Combat Technology simultaneously.

Notice that limitations trigger when you are already researching something. For example: with 10 FD labs you are able to upgrade all your drives (2+1) simultaneously. Moreover, you are also able to start research of: 3 Primary, 2 Advanced and 1 Combat technologies, what gives you 9 simultaneous upgrades in total. With such rules, 15 FD labs allows you to upgrade all available technologies at the same time.

If you think it's too much, another limitation can be made, e.g.: Each 2 FD labs would allow you to upgrade 1 additional technology in total.

The only question is what level of Research Lab should make it "fully developed". Natural suggestion is the 12th level, since it fulfills all "technological" requirements (all technologies unlocked for the research). I leave it to your opinions too.

Cyberdemon wrote:

Well, all depends on the results you want to achieve by unlocking multiple researches.
Your suggestion actually would help only those players:
- who are many levels of IRN (and other technologies) behind top players
- who have dozens of planets and no chances of taking them all into use of IRN (really hypothetical)
- who have plenty of resources and want to make use of "Tech Save" for them

What is the point of implementing this? As I've written above, there's another barrier - costs... That's enough for opponents to reach technology records for the universe, sooner or later. They need nothing more. For me, it's not the priority.

It doesn't help ONLY those. It helps them more but there's benefits for everyone.
It helps every player who doesn't have IRN equal to the number of colonies. (almost everyone)
And even those can have some benefits if they get another colony.

In your proposal, IRN isn't as useful as it should be.
If you are doing 9 researches in 9 labs you can't benefit from IRN because using IRN means some labs are working on the same research. You can change IRN to something else, but I still don't like the idea.

The barrier of costs is what makes unfeasible such ideas of speeding up the research process. No one can produce the amount of resources needed to continually make 5 researches concurrently with the speed of 5 labs with IRN each.

I still prefer something more close to what SlowMotion has proposed.

It helps every player who doesn't have IRN equal to the number of colonies. (almost everyone)
And even those can have some benefits if they get another colony.

Of course, not ONLY. But do not overestimate this feature. It has really some importance if you have tons of resources to spend on researches... and enough of patience to wait. This is possible (or rather: profitable) only for low levels of technologies.

The barrier of costs is what makes unfeasible such ideas of speeding up the research process. No one can produce the amount of resources needed to continually make 5 researches concurrently with the speed of 5 labs with IRN each.

Sooner or later each player reaches the stage when the time becomes the main barrier. Even if technology is still worth of developing, it takes months or even years to finish only one research. Occasionally (especially after huge battles with large profits) players have enough resources to invest in next research, but time and mechanism makes it impossible and they are forced to spend them in other way. Moreover, some researches are favored due to a higher impact for the strength, speed etc. I don't like the fact that research time becomes deciding for such choices.

In your proposal, IRN isn't as useful as it should be.
If you are doing 9 researches in 9 labs you can't benefit from IRN because using IRN means some labs are working on the same research. You can change IRN to something else, but I still don't like the idea.

It's exactly as useful as it was supposed to be - it speeds up researches even better than in your idea, because IRN doesn't block your best labs to work with other researches. Without IRN it still will take ages to research something. This feature would be useless if I have to waste a potential of my IRN and to wait several times more, comparing to upgrades "one by one".

If explanation of "blocking" labs by IRN sounds so well for you, explain me why players can't use all labs independently without IRN? Whatever you answered, it would be illogical. All this comes from false (and stupid) imagination how research labs and their scientists "work". It's not just another factory...

Cyberdemon wrote:

If explanation of "blocking" labs by IRN sounds so well for you, explain me why players can't use all labs independently without IRN? Whatever you answered, it would be illogical. All this comes from false (and stupid) imagination how research labs and their scientists "work". It's not just another factory...

I agree that it does not make any sense. That why I have suggested something to change it.
I think that labs should work like the shipyards unless they are working together on something. In this case the other labs would remain free to work on another research.

To make all labs benefice from IRN also does not make any sense!
You really need that ? Can you imagine 9 researches at the speed or IRN 8 ?
No one produces so many resources to feed more that 5 labs with IRN 8 and labs level 15.
I believe you want it, but I'm sure you don't need it.

I may be wrong but I think no one will ever need to research so fast.
Maybe when I reach level 50 of metal and cristal mines I will need it.

If it is really needed to use an research to increase the amount of simultanious researches I wont use the Astro.

Astro is already used for amount of colonies and for expeditions.

If a research is needed I suggest an currently "dead" research like Hyperspace-Tech (not Hyperdrive) will be a good idea.

I think you all are missing a very important point here. nearly nobody could use this at all for a long time, because no one is able to get enough resources to run more then one research over a long time. For example I got a daily production of ~10.000.000 DSE, I have 150 researchlabs. If i now want to run the astrophysic research without a break I have to put ~7.000.000 DSE per day for astrophysics. So I just do not have the daily production to do many different researches at the same time.

Next point is if I allowed people to do more then one research at a time this will make the high levels of research labs and research network more or less useless. I never will have enough resourses to use all research slots then, so I better stay with low level labs and a low level network doing 5+ researches at the double amount of research duration then doing one single resource as it is now at a fast research time but at a high cost for labs and network.

So what we would need is a silent better performance on high level labs and network, to make people go for it. For example by fixing / changing this "bug" [ clarified ] wrong research time with intergalactic research network But not to much because in the end, we end up with the same problem... not enough resources to use the labs and network all day long. Maybe high level labs and network should lower the cost of researches a bit?

A different research duration calculation, that makes metal and crystall heavy researches faster. For example the most expensive research (if we talk about how much resources I need to keep the resource running per day) is compu tech with almost 20.000.000 DSE per day (based on my labs from the example). while i need only need ~4.000.000 DSE to research weapon, armor or schild technologie. The idea would be to make the resource duration more based on the DSE cost per day of the research. So that laser, ion, weapon, schild and armor technologie are getting faster (~ halve duration) while combustion drive and compu tech are getting slower (double duration).

And most important at all is to be able to stop a research and resume it whenever you want. So if someone is researching astrophysics 22+ some day he can stop it and go to vacation mode. Or he can stop it and research something else and then resume the astrophysic research. That is so important because within so long research durations the game will change and you will have to research something else from time to time. Maybe the GF will add a new Research again or forces us to research something. Maybe you can set the amount of possible paused researches = the level of IGFN / 3 or something like that. But stay with the way that we only can research one thing at a time!

Caprica Six wrote:

I think you all are missing a very important point here. nearly nobody could use this at all for a long time, because no one is able to get enough resources to run more then one research over a long time. For example I got a daily production of ~10.000.000 DSE, I have 150 researchlabs. If i now want to run the astrophysic research without a break I have to put ~7.000.000 DSE per day for astrophysics. So I just do not have the daily production to do many different researches at the same time.

If a fleeter for example "finds" a good target with big amount of resources there can be the possibility to start more than one research.

Caprica Six wrote:

Next point is if I allowed people to do more then one research at a time this will make the high levels of research labs and research network more or less useless. I never will have enough resourses to use all research slots then, so I better stay with low level labs and a low level network doing 5+ researches at the double amount of research duration then doing one single resource as it is now at a fast research time but at a high cost for labs and network.
So what we would need is a silent better performance on high level labs and network, to make people go for it. For example by fixing / changing this "bug" [ clarified ] wrong research time with intergalactic research network But not to much because in the end, we end up with the same problem... not enough resources to use the labs and network all day long. Maybe high level labs and network should lower the cost of researches a bit?

Thats also a possibility, but this thread is also a possibility.

Caprica Six wrote:

And most important at all is to be able to stop a research and resume it whenever you want. So if someone is researching astrophysics 22+ some day he can stop it and go to vacation mode. Or he can stop it and research something else and then resume the astrophysic research. That is so important because within so long research durations the game will change and you will have to research something else from time to time. Maybe the GF will add a new Research again or forces us to research something. Maybe you can set the amount of possible paused researches = the level of IGFN / 3 or something like that. But stay with the way that we only can research one thing at a time!

A pause for vacation mode is afaik in work or planned.
A pause for research other technics is not good, because it makes saving of resources much to easy.
(Just start 2 researchs and pause is, and start a third to block the research labs. And you have the resources for all 3 in save )

how often a fleeter finds a good target and then wants to start more then one research? even if that happens from time to time... the research labs of a fleeter are more or less unused over the year. so he can still research step by step without a problem. he will never have the mine production to max out his labs and build fleet without raiding.

i do not want "pause a research" as a save option. if you pause the research the resources that are not used yet of the research should be put on the planet. if you restart it you have to have that missing resources again on that planet to restart. so no saving res with that.