Dev Post: Wreck Fields - The "Wreckoning" - discussion

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    • Kub1n4sh1 wrote:

      So for what i understand from now on theres is many times when the fleets are balanced that it doesn't worth atacking cause we will probably loose more points then the defender and the defender will get more profit then u.... STOP THIS MADNESS WHEN U STILL HAVE TIME.... Or at least if the reason to this implementation it's to help newbies put it only available for the acc's with less then 500k points.


      Defender won't take profit because of this feature... even if he steals all debris field from his destroyed ships (unless if attacker got stamp most of his fleet), but that's attacker's fault maybe...

      Minion wrote:

      Well, nice to see that at least temporarily the wreck fields do not touch the demolishing system. Let's see how it works and how the game evolves with this.

      In any case
      “Please note that we reverted the changes for demolishing buildings. For the time being demolishing will stay unchanged. We are aware that some people use demolishing for resource saving. We do not feel that this is how resource saving should work, and will change this in the future by offering an alternative.”
      I don't want to alter the subject of discussion, so do not answer, but please, just think about it for yourselves:

      Why? I mean, it's something that I don't think anyone ever cried about. It's just part of the game, and no one questioned it. Wether you have jumpgate building slowly in the moon to have a few extra deuterium in case you need it, or saving for a bigger building. For me, saying what you just said is (no joke here) exactly as if you said “you cannot spy allies to create activity because we don't feel that this is how creating activity should work”.

      In any case, let's see what purposes do you show in the future, and let's hope it's good. Again, let's hope this wreck fields also work :)


      There are other options to hide resources at the moment, and better in my opinion. But take a look in that sentence carefully "we will offer an alternative". That means that there will be another option to hide resources (it is suposed to be better than demolition) :)

    • Danimanza wrote:

      Defender won't take profit because of this feature... even if he steals all debris field from his destroyed ships (unless if attacker got stamp most of his fleet), but that's attacker's fault maybe...
      So if defender as no resources and u attack only because of the debris, he took de debris, he can rebuild most of his fleet and u say that he won't make proffit??? i am talking about balanced fleets when both, defender and attacker got many ships destroyed, when normally u attack it now, u will think twice then

      Anyone that like to play with numbers don't want to make a few simulations about that situation????

    • I think what Kub1n4sh1 want to say is: If the defender got the DF from his own destroyed fleet + the DF from the other destroyed fleet + the Ships from the WF. Sure there might be profit, but for that case you also make profit without the WF. The profit here, is that you still have some fleet after the repair time. But that case is cunstructed, because for that the loss of attacker need to be more then your own.

      If you only get your own (only from your ships) DF + WF, there is no profit at all, because you sttill loose ships. For that case you e.g. can rebuild 45% of your fleet, but only if the fleet don´t need deut to be build, if your fleet cost deut then it´s less. So for your case the DF needs to be bigger then 55% of your own fleet to make real profit (even more if the fleet cost deut)

      when normally u attack it now, u will think twice then

      You should always think twice before attacking and you need to plan, that should be a normal behavior in OGame. Just attack and hope all goes fine is ... :D

      My team is working on an sim for the WFs. We will provide it with the final table of resource cost for the Space Dock :)

      LG
      Being a QA is sort of like being a goal keeper. People only talk about you when you’ve screwed up. We are the silent guardians of game development, and they will never have to thank us.

    • Mmmm no I suppose the case he pointed out is that this can lead to avoid some borderline fights... And unfortunately it is borderline fights which made the history of a Universe, that give consistence to the life and motivation of an Universe.

      For example :

      Defender = 60M Fleet Points excluding Deut
      Attacker looses 20M Fleet Points on battle excluding Deut
      Defender Fast Clicks all cyclos, and get the whole Debris Field ( 80 * 30% = 24M ).
      The Defender rebuilds his WF ( lets say station 6, 35% > 21M WF ).

      The defender looses 60 - 24 - 21 excluding deut, so looses 15M.
      The attacher looses 20M, so... more than the defender who lost the battle.

      Should we imagine that, as well as you have a minimal limit ( 5% of the total fleet points to lead to WF creation ), you install a maximal limit ? For instance, the WF cannot exceeds the top 100 fleet points.

      It can avoid that the Universe live NO CHANGE even after a whole defeat of the main fleeter.

    • Will think about it, but so far not really, because you can´t calculate with fleetpoints or military points, what i read in other boards. You get real ships in the WF and those ships are round down. E.g. if you loose 5 Deathstars, you get 1 in the WF. If you calculate it with points, you will have a wrong result in your calculation.

      And for that case my personal opinion is like: if I loose really more then the defender and the defender get the whole debris field, it´s the fail fromt he attacker and a great work from the defender, so why create a max WF value for that. The ships and the resources in the WF don´t get created from nothing.

      LG
      Being a QA is sort of like being a goal keeper. People only talk about you when you’ve screwed up. We are the silent guardians of game development, and they will never have to thank us.

    • Small Cargo: 304.298
      Large Cargo: 76.470
      Light Fighter: 2.850.931
      Heavy Fighter: 2
      Cruiser: 520.200
      Battleship: 306.000
      Colony Ship: 98
      Recycler: 336.600
      Bomber: 6.995
      Destroyer: 520.200
      Deathstar: 6.491
      Battlecruiser: 306.000

      % of Fleet gone into WF: 30,6

      % to DF: 40%, Space Dock level 5 and formula in version alpha5 taken to calculate it. Note that the formula might change in the future.

      Origin Admin
      OGame-Tech Chief

    • Here a list for the Space Dock. The cost in the alpha5 Version on the live testservers will change (currently they are based on the old wreckfield idea). In the table you see the new values, which will be changed in the alpha6 Version.
      One of my Techies (NoMoreAngel) created a sim for the Wreckfields, so you can simulate some fleet loss to see, what can be repaired, based on the DF setting on the server and the space dock building lvl.

      For understandins of the table: Total means: What is IN the WF (calculated in ships, not in units!). The Repair means: what if the defender got his own DF + WF, how much can he repair. (Deut not considered of the Ships in the DF and also the fact, that the Ships in the WF are always round down (e.g. you loose 5 Deathstars, so you only get 1 back)

      wf-calculator​

      LG
      Images

      • WF_3.PNG

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      Being a QA is sort of like being a goal keeper. People only talk about you when you’ve screwed up. We are the silent guardians of game development, and they will never have to thank us.

    • Drop the "you can rebuild the entire WF in 12 hours no matter the size" and it's balanced. You start to show ignorance here by saying that it's "the fault of the attacker" that he can stand to lose more than the defender, when it's the defender that is at fault for creating an opening which attackers can exploit. Not only that, massive hits on the top players will cause heavy losses for both sides. You can't avoid losing a lot when engaging a fleet that's not that much smaller than yours (with/without ACS).

      I can understand having the WF and Space Dock around to rebuild, maybe even for the full duration of the WF, as long as the ability to rebuild is tied to the defenders construction speed. If you just make it possible for the defender to rebuild the whole WF in 12 hours, no matter its size, it'll lead to options where players can rebuild 100M fleets for free, and with possibly harvesting the whole DF, (thanks to insta-recs) and come out pretty much even, maybe even with a profit.

      The only thing that this will do, is solidify the top players in their ranks, and perhaps leave the noobs around for a couple months extra, just to get scrapped for more res. I mean, why would you try to bring down the no1, if you know there's no way for you to get the recs within 5 seconds of the hit, that the no1 will be on for the hit/will come on shortly after, and be able to harvest the DF with recs. I wouldn't, and if I didn't have other goals in this game, I'd just quit. Then the no1 players will start to quit, as they get bored (most top players on my uni were basically perma v-mode before the merge).

      If you want to shut this game down, just do it.

    • And for that case my personal opinion is like: if I loose really more
      then the defender and the defender get the whole debris field, it´s the
      fail fromt he attacker and a great work from the defender,
      Beuh ?

      A group of attacker have a unique occasion to hit the top fleet of the Universe, and change the future of it, but they know that probably it will be touchy to not loose too much.

      I don't call " great work " a top 1 that made a mistake, and thanks to 2 unbalanced features ( fast-click of recs, WF ), finally looses less than active players that saw this mistake... This, without limit, make untouchable fleets more untouchable than before.

    • Minion wrote:

      Just, out of curiosity, what would happen here: board.en.ogame.gameforge.com/b…r-bigboy-rio-td-1172-5bn/

      This hit wouldn't have happened with the WF for sure. Defender came online shortly after and insta clicked 500k recs. With the WF, the attackers would have more losses than him and wouldn't even have attacked.

      JoKy wrote:

      And for that case my personal opinion is like: if I loose really more then the defender and the defender get the whole debris field, it´s the fail fromt he attacker and a great work from the defender

      No, it's a great work of the instant build feature. The hit on War Machine is a great example here. Tell me how you want to get 22kk recs to arrive seconds after the hit? With the WF, attacks like this won't ever happen and people like War Machine will stay on the top forever, because no one will attack them.

    • RiV- wrote:

      Minion wrote:

      Just, out of curiosity, what would happen here: board.en.ogame.gameforge.com/b…r-bigboy-rio-td-1172-5bn/

      This hit wouldn't have happened with the WF for sure. Defender came online shortly after and insta clicked 500k recs. With the WF, the attackers would have more losses than him and wouldn't even have attacked.

      This is not true. The 100 billion profit they made would stay. No one would have taken anything away from that. Where does it say he would have been able to have more recs instantly???? He had 1.1kk recs but he would have had to wait 30 minutes to even start getting any ships back from the wreck field. Also the players that where ACS defending him would still have lost all thier ships.

      RiV- wrote:


      JoKy wrote:

      And for that case my personal opinion is like: if I loose really more then the defender and the defender get the whole debris field, it´s the fail fromt he attacker and a great work from the defender

      No, it's a great work of the instant build feature. The hit on War Machine is a great example here. Tell me how you want to get 22kk recs to arrive seconds after the hit? With the WF, attacks like this won't ever happen and people like War Machine will stay on the top forever, because no one will attack them.

      And this is exctly the reason that there should be a upper limit to points where this even gets implemented. If you are above a certain point limit maybe 2 kk to 3kk you lose the ability to get a Wreck Field. So it would be something like a extended noob protection. The building could then be torn down and would not affect the limited planet size when the accounts get much larger.

    • I'm not sure it needs an upper limit to activate or not, I prefer a maximal size limit of the DF itself. Make it dynamic for example with the military ranking ( like the things found in expedition get higher when the top 1 overflows specific points steps ), for instance, the DF cannot exceeds the military points of the top 50 of the military ranking.

    • I say, let people build whatever they want, but it has to be rebuilt during the 72-hour window that the WF is around for (speed of rebuilding is equal to speed you'd get by just building those ships). You can build a lot in 72 hours, if you run your shipyards at 100%, but it won't be something massive, unless you have a big nanite as well.

      They could also choose what they want rebuilt too, obviously.