International OGame Championship 2015. Discussion

Dividius wrote:

Am I reading the numbers correctly? Do we really have 300 million deut for research and 500 million deut for ships, plus what we earned?

Are we just supposed to post our researches on the 21st, or both researches and ships?

Concerning what I earned from the points, am I limited to using it for building ships only, or can I use it for buying research as well? Can I use some of it for buying research if I choose and some for buying ships?

The question concerning what I can do with my points was answered, but what about the other two questions I asked? I need ALL these questions answered so I can plan how to spend my resources best. I do not understand why you would answer one question and not the other two questions.

I do not understand why, over and over again, information is being withheld. I have basically asked the same questions here and in a ticket. I have not received answers to most of my questions. PLEASE answer the questions above.

I cannot send you any information until I know how much resources I am working with. The dot (.) in america shows the decimal point; therefore, 300.000.000 looks like 300 deut with some extra dots. If the dots are the same as commas, it looks like 300 million in deut. Both 300 deut and 300 million deut look wrong. I need to know what number I am working with. Please spell the amount in words like, we have three hunderd million deut for research. I keep asking because the numbers could be interpreted in more than one way. Why can't I get an answer to this simple question?

Thank you for your input Horcon. Unfortunately, both systems are used at the same time in listing research amounts. A good example is Intergalatic Research Network 2. The research costs 960.000 metal, 1.6M crystal, and 640.000 deut. It is obvious that the . in 1.6M is a decimal point and means one million six hundred thousand. If I assume that the . in both metal and deut. is a decimal point, than those values become 960 metal and 640 metal. If I assume that each . is a place holder, the values ate 960 thousand and 640 thousand. Logic would dictate that since math is so precise, the . should mean the same thing in all three cases.

A long time ago I learned to assume nothing. While it SEEMS most likely that GF is using the . both as a place holder and as a decimal point, the best course of action is to simply ask. I need to hear from someone official that 300.000.000 and 500.000.000 mean three hundred million and five hundred million as opposed to three hundred and five hundred.

I started asking this question here three days ago, and in my ticket four days ago. I asked many questions; I have received some answers in the forum, but I have not received any answers in my ticket. I am totally shocked by the lack of any answer. How long can it take to say,"300.000.000 and 500.000.000 mean 300 million (or three hundred million) and 500 million (or five hundred million)?" Even if they have no clue as to why I am confused, the proper thing to do is to answer the question.

During this contest, I asked several times if non-participants can attack participants. It is never stated in the rules if non-participants are allowed to attack participants. The contest was over before I got an actual answer to that question. I will keep asking until I get an answer to my question concerning what 300.000.000 and 500.000.000 actually mean. I am baffled by a system that could use the same punctuation mark for both place holders and decimal points. All I want is a simple answer so I don't waste hours of time doing sims, converting numbers and making lists which are useless.

Do 300.000.000 and 500.000.000 mean 300 million and 500 million, or do they mean something else?

There are several problems with the most recent posting for the international contest.

The biggest problem is that a huge advantage has been given to those who did not do the math correctly and spent too little money on ships. Since the ship totals have been posted, those who get to add more ships can run sims and try to defeat the other fleets. Those who spent the correct amount cannot make changes. The skill involved was in building a fleet that could defeat any fleet that was encountered. The total amount which could be spent should have been posted and not the ship counts. Any adjusting of fleets at this point, after the fleets have been revealed, hurts those who spent their money correctly and have no adjustments to make.

You seem to be implying that s034 can use 18m left over from research for his ships. That was nowhere stated. Had I known that left over research money could be used for ships, I would have arranged my research very differently. Here is a part of the rules which should have been clearly stated before the contest began.

Finally, s034 did not research all the ships he is buying. Allowing him to reconfigure his fleet based on what he knows we have will give him the chance to run sims and try to defeat our fleets.

There seems to be only two options: 1) We can start the research and ship build from scratch (which would allow s034 to revamp his research to add what he forgot) or 2) We can use the research and ships which have been posted with the exception that s034 would lose the ships he did not research completely.

Choosing the first option would take a lot more time and penalizes those who did things right by giving those who did not do things right a pattern to follow. Choosing the second option wraps up the contest quickly and rewards those who worked hard to make the research and ship numbers work.

The resources available for research numbers are
very biased. Everyone was supposed to have 300M plus any part of their rewards
which they wanted to use for either research, ships, or split between both. You
have listed all the rewards as part of the totals for buying ships. That means
that all five remaining contestants can only spend 300M on research. Two of the five contestants have the allotted 300M,
two have way more than 300M, and one has way less than 300M.


Only Peppone and myself have 300M listed as our
research amounts. Even there, both of our numbers are slightly higher than
300M. Barba Negra has a wopping 739M for research, and her 102k is also listed
for buying ships. Next is crisdias_ogame
who has 449M for research as well as the full 74M in rewards added to his
ships. Peppone and I are just over 300M and our rewards are added to our ship
totals properly. S034 somehow only gets to use 45M for research.


According to the chart Barba Negra who should
have 300M for research, 500M for ships, and 102M from rewards now gets an extra
439M to spend while s034 gets 255M LESS to spend. crisdias_ogame gets an extra 149M for reasons
unexplained.


The rules say: “2) You have: 500.000.000
Deuterium to build your own virtual fleet. Fleet can be built only if
researches from last step are unlocked.” In a different thread it is stated that:
“You can use your points as you wish..” There was never any mention that money
left over from research could be used for ships. I certainly would not have tried to use all of
my research money if I knew I could use what is left for buying more ships.


Finally, I need to say that allowing others to
buy ships after you post the make-ups of the fleets destroys the contest. No
one should be allowed to adjust a fleet based on knowing what others have. The
rules were set up so no one knows what ships and what researches anyone else
has. The rules needed to be clearly
stated and not changed to ensure a fair outcome. At this point, the contest is
ruined unless all fleets are frozen with the exception of s034 who spent 254M
more on fleet than he should have spent. If all of his ship amounts are reduced
by 27% he will have about the correct fleet size.

Lol Dudes, i dont get it either, I´ve got only 45 mio Deut for researches?
And how can I have 18M left from researches when they are in minus?
I checked my ticket and i clearly send in Combustion Drive level 1, which is not listed in my researches.
I didn´t want to buy Battlecruisers, so I didn´t research them, but somehow they appear in my calculations, thats the only mistake i can clearly say its right (u can see i also researched Hyperdrive 7 which im not using, so there must have been a saving mistake in my excel sheet, maybe i didn´t save the file after i dismissed the Deathstar to build and so my testing were saved and not my final decision), so they should be removed and everything should be nice.

So i will remove the battlecruisers and yeah this is not really a contest, this is a mess.

You should absolutely not be able to adjust your fleet after you know the fleets of the other participants, and in my case it wouldnt make a difference to remove the battlecruisers, because im not even allowed to build them, so the fine for my mistake would be to remove them and we can go on with the contest, I don´t understand why all are supposed to change their fleet.
Yes i made a mistake, and in the beginning there was said, that this contest is about "skill", so if you make a mistake you should not be able to correct it, you should be fined for your lack of skill.
But what kind of skill is it to counter build other given fleets, i wouldn´t even be upset if im discharged from the contest because of my mistake, because it shows, that im not too interested in this "contest" but the way its done now is not right.
So i will not buy any more fleet, just remove the not allowed ships how its supposed to be in a "contest".

I finally figured out where the numbers came from. The left over money from ships is being added to research, and then the left over money from the new research total minus research costs is given back to buy more ships. If we are allowed to use the money for research and ship building interchangeably, why have two distinct categories?

Next, Intergalatic research networks, Astrophysics, and Gravatation technology are being given away absolutely free? There are no costs listed for these researches. How do you put a price on Gravatation? It seems as if an average planet in round numbers produces about 30 energy for a solar satellite (sat.). Based on the researches chosen we cannot assume that Gravitation would be done on the most efficient planet. 300,000 energy divided by 30 = 10,000 sats which would be neded. A sat costs 2,000 crystal which converts to 1,000 deut; add the 500 deut for the sat and the cost per sat in deut is 1,500. I would propose that to buy gravi, someone needs to have built at least 10,000 sats at a cost of 15,000,000. That being said, the cost of Gravitation technology is way higher than that. Protecting the satellites is a major job.

At this point, there is no way we can have a fair contest. The make-up of my fleet has been displayed and those with money to spend can buy ships to combat it while I have very little money to spend and cannot make changes. I have spent hours on figuring the exact composition of my fleet which will either win or have the least damage against every fleet listed, even the one for s034 which is over the limits. Due to the myriads of problems in this contest, I recommend that each of the five remaining contestants be awarded the first place coupon for 25e.

I have to believe that this tournament failed in many areas. The biggest problem, which has been stated over and over again, is that all of the rules and procedures were not clearly defined and strictly maintained. I have no idea if this was the fault of ICEGIRL or someone higher up the authority chain. I feel sorry for ICEGIRL as this tournament reflects badly on her when the problems encountered may not be her fault. Clearly this tournament could not have produced income for GameForge; the hours it took to run it far exceed any income from Dark Matter spent on this contest. The tournament was supposed to be a test of skill, but that test has just been eliminated by revealing the fleets and letting contestants use resources earmarked for research and ships interchangeably. Many questions have gone unanswered both here in the forums and in my tickets. Finally, due to all the frustrations, this was not fun. Since I do not think that the people who have designed such an entertaining game (OGame) would set out to alienate its customers (through this poorly run contest) and damage their reputation (again through this poorly run contest), a little damage control seems to be in order. GameForge can turn a negative into a positive by awarding the five remaining contestants a first place coupon for Dark Matter and issuing an apology for how the contest turned out.

While I greatly wanted to match my fleet against the others, I do not think this type of contest will work without modifications. Doing the calculations for the researches and the ships plus figuring out a good balanced fleet simply takes too much time and effort. There is also the issue that this contest could not have covered expenses. I believe that a contest with an entrance fee (say the equivalent of $20.00) and a minimum number of participants would be better. If there was a building phase all participants could receive an officer package and the same amount of DM to spend. Imagine how good paying customers would feel when they realize that they spent $20.00 to enter and get to use way more DM than that during the contest. The beauty is that this levels the playing field and could hook some players on using the officer package or DM in general. As for the fleet simulation phase, it would have to be simplified so people could get it right. The biggest thing is that all of the rules and procedures must be clearly posted before the contest and diligently followed. Perhaps this contest will be a learning experience which will produce positive results down the road.

I am glad to see more involvement in the running of this contest. According to the other thread, researches and ships have been separated, and everything has been sorted out. While I am thankful that things have been resolved according to the original intentions of the contest, I was not happy to see Barbara Negra removed from the contest. I am not complaining; I just wish there was a way for her to continue.

I want to thank Lord, ICEGIRL, and or anyone else who was involved in getting this contest back on track.

I am certain that Horcon is not complaining about being left out of this stage as he has mentioned on a few occasions that he has dropped out. He is discussing the fairness of the competition and if it was ever truly a test of skill. I have wondered the same things and understand his concerns.

The question which Horcon implies is if this contest is being manipulated to achieve the goal of having a close contest. If that is the case it has never been a contest about skill but about how GameForge can achieve their desired outcome.

Many people, including Horcon have asked why all of the rules and rewards have never been fully disclosed to the participants. His latest post cites that rules governing the use interchangeable nature of resources for research, resources for ship building, and resources earned as rewards has never been disclosed. He also correctly points out that if such information had been disclosed that s034 and myself would have chosen our researches differently. He showing that the failure to disclose information at the beginning of the contest opens the door for the rules or at least the application of the rules to be changed in the middle of the contest.

Lord also stated, "We kept an eye open for those bonus points as we wanted to keep their bonus in reason. Someone with only a few points should be able to keep up with someone who has a lot of points." These things point to an attempt to manipulate the outcome which favors the less skilled player. Has this contest been solely a contest of skill or is the outcome being manipulated to achieve the goal of keeping it close for the less skilled players? Has vital information been purposelessly withheld so that such information or rules can be used to achieve the desired outcome of having a close contest? Has anything been done (like setting the values of resources given and earned after the game has started) in order to achieve a desired outcome? The evidence and quote above suggest that this has not been about player's skill but about manipulating the contest towards a desired result.

It cannot be denied that the contest has been greatly affected by changes which have happened after it started. The lack of a complete disclosure of rules, rewards and procedures has caused a lot of confusion. The length of the contest has been shortened which greatly affected at least my long term goals and strategies. The combining of research and ship building resources would have had the potential to completely alter the outcome as well as disclosing the make-up of opponents fleets with the option for those who displayed the least skill in choosing researches and buying ships a chance to fix their errors with full knowledge of what an opponent has. These things strongly suggest that there has been an active manipulation of the contest while it has been being played.

Has there been a manipulation of of this contest while it was running? This would including but is not limited to setting the value of resources given and rewarded not before the contest began but while it was happening. This would also include but is not limited to withholding or failing to disclose rules, procedures, reward values, etc. for possibly changing such information, rules, procedures, rewards, etc. during the running of the contest? In other words, has anything been altered, decided, or reinterpreted during the course of this contest for the purpose of achieving a desired goal?

If it has always been the intention of GameForge to manipulate this contest while it was running to achieve a desired goal, why has that been hidden from the players? I certainly would have never committed my time and energy to playing this contest if I knew that during the contest lesser skilled players would be assisted and greater skilled players would be hindered. If it has never been the intention of Gameforge to manipulate the contest while it was running why were all the rules, procedures and reward values not disclosed before the contest began?

Lord, I understand your point on rewards which would be so high that there would be no skill involved at all. I have never questioned the need for keeping the contest competitive. My issues are why questions asking that the amounts of what is given to each player and the amounts for each point were never answered. I needed to know if I should get up early or stay up late to earn an extra point or two. I needed to know if I would have enough resources to buy all the research I wanted or if I would have to make hard choices. I needed to be able to figure out in advance if I should get dessys or more weapons tech. All of those decisions would also be affected by knowing if research and ship money is to be kept separate or can be interchanged.

I came into the contest having read all the discussions, most of which were negative. I decided to trust GameForge and test my skill against some of the best players around the world. Things did not start well. The contest was over a day old before we were told how to earn points and the list of names of players. How can you earn points if you do not know how? Once we knew how to earn points we needed to know the value of the points. Because the value of the points is relative to the amount each person would be given, that was asked as well. Questions asking what resources would be given and what is the value of the points were not answered until there was no chance to earn more points. Over and over again these important questions were ignored or not answered. Most of the questions which I asked in the forums or in tickets were never answered. Every time something was not answered my distrust of GameForge grew.

If you can explain why very crucial information was not given in time or given at all, I will be glad to apologize. If you cannot offer any good explanations, I hope you will be glad to apologize.

Finally, had all the necessary rules, information and procedures been given, we would never had the incident where resources for research and shipbuilding would be combined and later reversed. That incident, made GameForge look very bad. Blaming the problems on an untrained teamers makes GameForge look even worse. We needed all the information; we asked for the information, and it was either delayed or denied until all trust for GameForge was gone.

Here is your chance to restore some of the trust that was destroyed through the running of this contest.