Pinned Suggestions Area - Allow discussion in native language ?

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    • Many people can't speak good english, and their feedback is also important. But in the end, it would have to be translated back to english so what they said is also understood by all. It has pros and cons, but I think it has more pros than cons.

    • In my opinion is the local board a good place to have discussions in native language on suggestions. A translated summary can be posted on Origin to discuss it outside your community...
      On the local boards you have a bigger group to discuss it in your native language...

      Native language is for the local board, except where there is no counterpart on the local board

    • But how do you see this ?
      E.g. There is a russian suggestion and an english summary is posted with it.. There will be a discussion in russian which most of the visitors won't understand... They see an english summary of the suggestion, but the discussion is in russian. So they cannot give feedback...
      If you want to discuss the suggestion in russian, it's better to post it on the russian board... You have a lot more players there to discuss it in russian... If it's a good suggestion, the russian IP-team can translate it to english and post it on this board... Then all others can add their feedback...
      What is the profit to discuss it in russian on Origin from the beginning ? You get less feedback, because less players see it...

    • I see the value in potentially having more people that don't speak english (or speak it well) contributing ideas.

      In any case google translate does a pretty good job of translating (for me its built into chrome and automatically does translation on the fly).
      Translation software is so much better now then even a few years ago (anyone remember babelfish?) and is also so easy to find and use its just not hard to translate non-english into english.
      Thats why I personally have no problem with it. Views will certainly vary on this, but for me I have no issues with it.

    • I guess the best is to translate it before posting and not just a summary. It is really annoying to follow a discussion switching languages whole time and waiting for the English translation. I agree to PitA: Makes no sense to summarize, English should be maintained. It is counterproductive for the discussion. Best is to ask someone to translate, much more people are able to speak English then any other native language.

    • A few comments :

      From the beginning it's allowed to post in native anywhere here in Origin ... See Overview & Rules

      The main language of this board is English, but other languages are welcome.
      - You can add your native language in each post as a second part, preferably in spoiler tags.
      - In areas like the Localization Area native languages are allowed, please use the relevant language prefix in such cases.


      What we should to : Add the link to this thread in the overview and improve the text as a "very short guide" how to post in origin - And add translations. See Translation tools & websites


      About threads complete in native language :

      This quote from PitA is very good , i follow this line from the beginning - "origin don't replace national thins"

      PitA wrote:

      Native language is for the local board, except where there is no counterpart on the local board


      But we offer those board parts as well , IF the national want it. For example they can forward all Fan Art things to origin.
      We can do the same for the suggestions area. In this case, we should add another sub board "Suggestions in native languages" (one for all, with prefixes from the communities, who want it)


      Regards,

      And thanks for your replies :)

    • I liked our yesterday's conversation in IRC (between me, Chernobyl, Red-Dragon and Francolino). Some important parts of it:

      Display Spoiler
      [23:53:12] 1<12@Francolino1> well ... someone here who is really against : Open "Archive for reply"
      [23:53:32] 12<02+Zmery12>1 hmm? open archive for reply?
      [23:53:50] 12<02+Zmery12>1 if its archived, why reply there?
      [23:53:50] 1<12@Francolino1> yes . to give this threas live again :)
      [23:54:01] 12<02+Zmery12>1 im not against.
      [23:54:05] 1<12@Francolino1> Archive is for all those quite ideas ..
      [23:54:06] 1<12@Francolino1> for a longer time no reply, no interest . what else
      [23:54:28] 12<02+Zmery12>1 if they arent refused, why archive them? juast cause they are old?
      [23:54:43] 1<12@Francolino1> Zmery to clean up the main area :)
      [23:54:48] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> it is a good idea
      [23:55:03] 1<12@Francolino1> if you move only forwarded ideas, the main area have much to much threads
      [23:55:22] 1<12@Francolino1> for me : in main area only "current" ideas .. those with replies
      [23:55:26] 12<02+Zmery12>1 well, it gets more organized yes
      [23:55:32] 12<02+Zmery12>1 just dont call it archive
      [23:55:37] 1<12@Francolino1> sorry :PP
      [23:55:53] 12<02+Zmery12>1 somethjing like "ideas of the past" or "old suggestions" or others
      [23:56:09] 12<02+Zmery12>1 archive may lead to think they got rejected or closed
      [23:56:29] 1<12@Cherno`1> im not against it .. think about this way .. there maybe an idea that didnt recieve many replies .. ( it could be also a good idea ) .. but players would be able to brinh that idea back alive
      [23:56:40] 1<12@Cherno`1> and get a official feedback
      [23:56:46] 1<12@Cherno`1> ( if needed )
      [23:57:13] 12<02+Zmery12>1 agreed
      [23:58:03] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> true
      Tempo da Sessão: Thu Jul 28 00:00:01 2011
      [00:00:36] 1<12@Francolino1> yes cherno this is what i think about
      [00:00:43] 1<12@Francolino1> make it easy for users, to bring back ideas
      [00:00:51] 1<12@Francolino1> otherwise, they have to PM you
      [00:01:08] 1<12@Francolino1> there's no sense for this
      [00:01:17] 1<12@Francolino1> or they start a new one
      [00:02:29] 1<12@Francolino1> ok reload
      [00:02:46] 1<12@Francolino1> well, now only current ideas should stay in the main area
      [00:02:58] 1<12@Francolino1> ah .. one important hint
      [00:03:10] 1<12@Cherno`1> ok
      [00:03:19] 1<12@Francolino1> the current Board version has problems with thread rating
      [00:03:24] 1<12@Francolino1> this is why i deactivated it
      [00:03:37] 12<02+Zmery12>1 wbb has problemas with SO many things... lol
      [00:03:39] 1<12@Francolino1> comes back when it works well again
      [00:03:40] 1<12@Cherno`1> [00:00] <@Francolino> otherwise, they have to PM you <<-- exactly .. more stuff to deal with xD
      [00:03:48] 1<12@Francolino1> hehe zmery
      [00:03:58] 1<12@Cherno`1> could get annoying xD
      [00:04:00] 12<02+Zmery12>1 lazy Cherno` lol
      [00:04:03] 1<12@Francolino1> cherno yes .. i dislike those stupid things
      [00:04:17] 1<12@Francolino1> make it easy, let the people talk ..
      [00:04:22] 12<02+Zmery12>1 yes
      [00:04:27] 1<12@Cherno`1> yep
      [00:04:50] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> true
      [00:05:03] 12<02+Zmery12>1 let the ideas flow. closing topics isnt needed, not on suggestions at least, and not in origins
      [00:05:47] 1<12@Cherno`1> agreed .. if we reject or close every idea that would cause players to lose interest
      [00:05:51] 12<02+Zmery12>1 others may see the suggestions much time later and like to comment there
      [00:05:59] 12<02+Zmery12>1 That too
      [00:06:26] 12<02+Zmery12>1 Idea can even be a bad idea, but bad ideas can be improved and worked and turn into good ideas
      [00:07:16] 12<02+Zmery12>1 even if an idea isnt implemented, its still good players discuss it. why is an idea bad, what can they do to make it better, and all.
      [00:07:26] 12<02+Zmery12>1 so they make better ideas in the future aswell
      [00:07:47] 1<12@Cherno`1> very true
      [00:07:48] 1<12@Cherno`1> also
      [00:07:57] 1<12@Cherno`1> [00:06] <+Zmery> Idea can even be a bad idea, but bad ideas can be improved and worked and turn into good ideas
      [00:07:58] 1<12@Cherno`1> right on
      [00:08:05] 1<12@Cherno`1> can be improbed by us also
      [00:08:12] 12<02+Zmery12>1 obvious
      [00:08:13] 1<12@Cherno`1> *improved
      [00:09:00] 12<02+Zmery12>1 I never had much imagination to create ideas of my own, but i find challenging to work on ideas posted by others
      [00:09:01] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> there you have the feedback for
      [00:09:33] 12<02+Zmery12>1 usually if an idea has good feedback by many people, it IS a good idea
      [00:09:48] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> in the feedback you can turn a bad to a good idea
      [00:10:07] 12<02+Zmery12>1 players are good critics, most of them. they dont say "hey good idea" just to spam
      [00:10:08] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> or you can give suggestions how to make it better
      [00:10:37] 12<02+Zmery12>1 in the eyes of the person suggesting, every idea is perfect
      [00:10:45] 12<02+Zmery12>1 or they'dnt post
      [00:10:53] 12<02+Zmery12>1 they wouldnt*
      [00:11:09] 12<02+Zmery12>1 (i never know the correct contractions lol)
      [00:12:45] 12<02+Zmery12>1 but first we need more players posting there aswell
      [00:12:54] 1<12@Cherno`1> yea
      [00:13:02] 12<02+Zmery12>1 I just hate when players give up on 1st obstacle
      [00:13:09] 12<02+Zmery12>1 like they post a great idea
      [00:13:14] 12<02+Zmery12>1 someone comes over
      [00:13:19] 1<12@Cherno`1> they wouldnt post bcz they might think its a bad idea
      [00:13:21] 12<02+Zmery12>1 "hey, that idea sucks"
      [00:13:24] 1<12@Cherno`1> but you never know if you dont try
      [00:13:38] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> that is a thing that we must prevent
      [00:13:40] 12<02+Zmery12>1 and they dont defend their idea and just stop suggesting
      [00:13:47] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> that people post: bad idea
      [00:13:53] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> and then the user go away
      [00:14:37] 12<02+Zmery12>1 ok, its a bad idea... WHY is it a bad idea? What points of it are bad, and why?
      [00:14:51] 12<02+Zmery12>1 yes, very demotivating
      [00:15:06] 1<12@Francolino1> <- busy, sorry
      [00:15:21] 12<02+Zmery12>1 you can even warn the guy who posted "bad idea" for spam, it wont bring the other guy back
      [00:15:27] 12<02+Zmery12>1 its ok Francolino lol
      [00:15:27] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> they must motivate why it is a bad idea
      [00:17:16] 1<12@Red-Dragon1> goodnight all
      [00:17:41] 1<12@Cherno`1> well , even if something like that happens you can pretty much step in and see what you think about the idea
      [00:17:58] 1<12@Cherno`1> coz that person may post ' bad idea ' just bcz of boredom
      [00:18:10] 12<02+Zmery12>1 goodnight Red-Dragon
      [00:18:36] 12<02+Zmery12>1 Well Cherno` you cant be 24/7 reading every posts
      [00:19:14] 1<12@Cherno`1> i know
      [00:19:14] 1<12@Cherno`1> but
      [00:19:23] 1<12@Cherno`1> its not like we get 100 replies every day
      [00:19:27] 12<02+Zmery12>1 if the user reads a comment to his idea saying its bad but not explaining why or why not, the person just stops going to that section of the board
      [00:19:41] 12<02+Zmery12>1 No, true
      [00:19:43] 3>10>1> Red-Dragon Agora é: RD|ZNC
      [00:19:47] 12<02+Zmery12>1 (thank god)
      [00:19:57] 12<02+Zmery12>1 100/day would be a LOT
      [00:20:13] 12<02+Zmery12>1 i prefere few and good than MANY and a mess
      [00:20:25] 1<12@Cherno`1> would be good tho .. means we are doing something right .
      [00:20:54] 1<12@Cherno`1> for exapmle im trying to reply in every suggestions .. ( board.us ) .. to keep ppl interested ..
      [00:20:58] 12<02+Zmery12>1 depends on the perspective
      [00:21:22] 12<02+Zmery12>1 on one way, it means people are active and want to improve the game
      [00:21:47] 1<12@Cherno`1> yep
      [00:21:56] 12<02+Zmery12>1 on the other hand, if you get TOO many suggestions it can mean people want the game to change and no longer like it as it is
      [00:23:58] 12<02+Zmery12>1 or maybe not...
      [00:24:07] 1<12@Cherno`1> well , maybe/maybe not
      [00:24:15] 1<12@Cherno`1> but
      [00:24:42] 12<02+Zmery12>1 I just never reply to "idiot suggestions" (except for closing them LOL)
      [00:24:55] 1<12@Cherno`1> if you get too many suggestions it can also mean that they like the idea that they can implement something ingame ?
      [00:24:57] 1<12@Cherno`1> and improve the game
      [00:24:59] 12<02+Zmery12>1 like "there should be a 100x universe"
      [00:25:02] 1<12@Cherno`1> which thats what GF wants
      [00:25:23] 12<02+Zmery12>1 yes
      [00:25:25] 1<12@Cherno`1> well , that type of suggestions get rejected most of the time
      [00:25:28] 12<02+Zmery12>1 youre right
      [00:49:47] 1<12@Francolino1> about those "idiot suggestions" .. feel free to move them without response to the real archive
      [00:49:50] 1<12@Francolino1> or .. spam archive
      [00:50:23] 1<12@Francolino1> Origin is not a replacement for all the national board . they have the task to support all users ..
      [00:50:25] 1<12@Francolino1> Origin not
      [00:52:03] 1<12@Cherno`1> ok
      [00:52:40] 12<02+Zmery12>1 ok
      [00:54:14] 1<12@Francolino1> Zmery .. it's up to you and your com which ideas you forward
      [00:54:38] 1<10+zohar|away1> nn
      [00:54:40] 1<12@Francolino1> Against this .. Origin is open for all users .. this means they CAN post own ideas here
      [00:55:25] 3>10>1> zohar|away Agora é: zohar
      [00:55:48] 1<12@Francolino1> means, we need a balance between "origin don't replace national boards" and "every user can post here"
      [00:55:59] 12<02+Zmery12>1 well
      [00:56:00] 3>10>1> zohar Agora é: [zohar|off]
      [00:56:07] 12<02+Zmery12>1 users have an idea
      [00:56:20] 12<02+Zmery12>1 they should be instructed to post on national boards 1st
      [00:56:26] 1<12@Francolino1> correct
      [00:56:27] 12<02+Zmery12>1 to get initial feedback
      [00:57:08] 12<02+Zmery12>1 IF that feedback is good, the idea is brought to Origin, and the users are free to come post WHY they like the idea, why they want it ingame, etc
      [00:57:19] 1<12@Francolino1> yes
      [00:57:28] 12<02+Zmery12>1 if its not, they learn why... and origin doesnt get spammed with bad ideas
      [00:57:44] 12<02+Zmery12>1 (if the feedback is not good i mean)
      [00:58:31] 1<12@Francolino1> yes, this is the general rule.
      [00:58:39] 1<12@Francolino1> Well, i explain a little
      [00:58:53] 1<12@Francolino1> first, origin was closed, invite only
      [00:59:15] 1<12@Francolino1> not only for DPAed staffer, but they need to be added to groups
      [00:59:30] 1<12@Francolino1> the problem is .. cause of all those coms ..
      [00:59:41] 1<12@Francolino1> which users do we add ?=
      [00:59:54] 1<12@Francolino1> this was a stupid situation
      [01:00:08] 12<02+Zmery12>1 invite only is good... and bad
      [01:00:15] 1<12@Francolino1> It's really fine now as it is
      [01:00:26] 1<12@Francolino1> very interested users joins here, and replies
      [01:00:36] 1<12@Francolino1> all the other "normal" user don't
      [01:01:02] 12<02+Zmery12>1 Invite only would work better if they were less comms. Since there are so many comms, its better open as it is now
      [01:01:10] 1<12@Francolino1> yes thats it
      [01:01:29] 12<02+Zmery12>1 well, everyone is free to join
      [01:01:43] 12<02+Zmery12>1 If they lose interest and stop posting, its no harm.
      [01:01:48] 1<12@Francolino1> :)


      I think this explains how I feel about the whole thing. IF they can't post in their own language (even if they need to translate in english using google translate on a spoiler or such), they'll lose motivation. Origin is not a replacement for national boards, but it's still a open-for-all board and if someone has an idea that got good feedback in their original board, they should "defend" their idea here aswell. If they get dependent on the representantive only, their idea will lose strength. It's lçike only one person will be saying "hey, here's a good idea". If others come and explain why they liked the idea and why they want it implemented ingame, the job is much easier for all. But they have to feel confortable posting. If they don't understand english, they just won't come. If they are allowed to post in their language, even if translation is needed (from google translate for example, not perfect but...), they'll like it more. I understand PitA's point of view. If they don't speak english and should understand the discussions, others don't speak portuguese/german/french/russian/whatever and would like to understand what they say also. BUT... why not try and see if it works?

      @Francolino, totally agreed, that topic helps a lot (the translation one). Oh, and I thought about translating the most important topics to portuguese aaswell hehe... (like overview, rules, that sorta things) so PT/BR speaking users understand where they can post, what they can post, how this board works... etc... what say you?

    • There's something very important to have in mind :

      Nearly all people from germany and also from the netherlands speaks english of course. It's the first foreign language there since ages. And german / dutch / english are finally close together. If someone understand "old german" or "old dutch" they understand english as well.

      This is the reason why at first romanian based languages or russian likes this idea - most of the player or team member speak english well.

    • well there are 2 point of here and i am with both.
      The first is that ppl lose interest if they cant understand english and cant give their opinion coz of the english restrictions.
      So allowing native languages to be used will give the tea; better feedback and more important opinion and ideas from the local baord...
      But also on the other hand, using google translater or any other translater is seriously a pain, i never was able to understand a word after i translate a text into english or french or any other language, coz neither the grammar or structure or anything stays intact after this sort of trnaslations, so in opposite of getting more feedback and incase if discussion in a native language, you will lose other feedback from others since they cant understand all the discusion and feel excluded from it and not post anything.
      It is a 2 sided option, i am agasint it for the reason that i dont like google translator coz i never understood a thing in it after translation, but if someone could give me a better more reliable translator i have no problem with it.
      But as someone above said, maybe creating a sub board with prefix of languages incase someone wants a native language discussion than no problem as well :)
      this is mu 2 cents about all this :)


      PS: sorry for typo and errors, but using my phone to type all this coz my pc is dead :P

    • I think the discussions MUST be in english.
      Otherwise we will get several big problems (after short time)

      - No non-native-speaker can see whether a poster flout someone.
      - Several discussions can fall into a language which only few persons can speak => Even GF will not read them !
      - good ideas can become lost, because nobody can read the language, possible also with a atrong accent.

      Possible solutions :
      - Require at least an google-translation to english by the poster as FIRST part of the post.
      - Better become an manually translated from an english speaking person which understands the native language.
      - For short posts the google translator will do (used by the poster), otherwise many persons must translate it to english to understand.

      I dont want to expulse an non-english speaking person. They HAVE good ideas and opinions.
      But the common language is english.

      Otherwise I can also say, "I dont want to speak in english, I want to speak german". => Only a few persons can understand the thread, all other will be lost :(

      In Fan-Art section the native language is ok, because several art is also depending on the country.

      But the ideas about ogame are international, and we are an international board.

      We dont want to replace the local boards (as Francolino said), so I belief we should request english.


      In case of a person which can not speak any english we can give the chance to find an "translator". Either google, or better an native speaker with english skills.

    • not everyone has chrome or wants to manually translate the text bei translate.google.com (and yes i like my browser because it hasn't got a translate feature because i dont need at all).

      so i'm against pure foreign language posts. same arguments as slowmotion.

    • I'm also against pure foreign language posts, Origin is for supporting all communities and for improving the contact between us and GF. For this to be properly achieved then we must be able to communicate properly with each other. For me the only way to do this is to use a single common language so all can participate.
      If we allow pure foreign posts then a vast majority of people will be instantly alienated and not be able to properly contribute with the idea.

    • i go with at least an English translation of the suggestion .
      reasons, all of the above.

      If a proposer has no English skills he/she can contact the national representative who will find a solution to this --> here comes the role of a national representative, acting like an ambassador for his community , or else, why do they exists

    • Valent wrote:

      i go with at least an English translation of the suggestion .
      reasons, all of the above.

      If a proposer has no English skills he/she can contact the national representative who will find a solution to this --> here comes the role of a national representative, acting like an ambassador for his community , or else, why do they exists
      Nice comment Valent. Totally agree with this point highlighted.

    • Kebab wrote:

      For me the only way to do this is to use a single common language so all can participate.
      That's not really true ... For me it's a big effort to speak in english ... and very often I realize that I participate well below my ability on this board (misinterpretation in peculiar). But is there a good solution ?
      If we allow pure foreign posts then a vast majority of people will be instantly alienated and not be able to properly contribute with the idea.
      Of course but if a person can translate without error very quickly I think it would not be a problem and plus we learn to know us better with our specificities.

      Le bonheur est souvent la seule chose qu'on puisse donner sans l'avoir,
      et c'est en le donnant qu'on l'acquiert ^ Voltaire.