Protection of weaker user - First Discussion [closed]

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  • Master 0f Puppets wrote:

    This idea born only for delete ours account, not for improve the game.
    I was a noob, but now, with years of playing, i'm a good player.
    The new players, with this idea, will not learn using the auto-fleet, BOTs are prohibited or not?

    Don't kill this game with this f**king idea.


    You want to delete your existing account cause in a few month new universes get a new feature to protect weaker user ?

  • DaftShadow wrote:

    After, It will be the old universe !
    Please Francolino, you can pass to GF that we want a written commitment !


    You find the official statement here in this thread, postet from me. Every OGame Admin got this information and is able to tell / quote it.

    Here is a quote from our Product CoMa :

    WeTeHa wrote:

    Also a lot do not notice that this setting is just thought for new upcoming server, not for the given ones. We may will add the protection system there as well, but for sure with much easier settings.



    DaftShadow wrote:


    And we want that this idea if there is accepted after the test, wiil be vote at each new universe !



    The new feature is coming to new universes, the test uni is "only" to check out the best settings and details. So you can't expect votes for each universe.

  • spa856 wrote:

    For example.

    I'm top 1 for fleets with 300.000 fleets (mix fleets)
    You are top 200 fleets with 300 fleets (only RIPs)

    I cannot go against you, because I'm top 1 and you top 200.
    But 300 RIPs are 300 RIPs



    You are wrong. Cause of the military highscore you can attack this player. The current fleet high score counts only the number of ships. Please see the news posting for details.

  • 300 RIPs?

    And why?

    If in my universe, top 100 have min. 300.000 fleets, 300 RIPs aren't don't count.
    Because in 300.000 fleets you can have 300 RIPs, 30.000 bs, 30.000 recy etc.... your values is more big than 300 RIPs.

    For example, the TOP1 for fleets with 1.000.000 fleets cannot go against 300 RIPs.

    Do you agree?

  • No, because the update will change the ranking too ;) Making it based more on the cost of the military fleet, so probably 300 rips will count as much as 3M probes.

    BTW, could we have an answer to badkarma's question : Have the people who had the idea of fleet escape ever played the game with a big fleet ?

  • I am lost in the face of what the gf wants to become ogame, but I can think of some questions, considering that on board the Italian understands little of what we want to do with this game.

    autofleet: moon but the debris field, after the previous moon colonization, will be elusive in practice?

    36.it've just broken up on my fleet and have the top 10 ships 350k has 100k

    it ends up that I destroy the Caccini so at least I can attack the top 100

    considering that the top 100 fleet has less than 35k pieces come tell me a little top with a sacrifice and then tell me I can not cghe attack?

    honor points? I should not make me a top 4000 full of resources? I think a lot of mah top honor points will almost 0 if not in fact often below 0

  • spa856 wrote:

    I don't agree. Any unis is different....the number fo fleets isn't easy to calculate.


    It's not the number of fleet, which is used for this coming feature. At the moment it's the metal and crystal cost , so you have something like the "power" of the fleet.


    jaip wrote:

    BTW, could we have an answer to badkarma's question : Have the people who had the idea of fleet escape ever played the game with a big fleet ?


    Many of the CoMa are old OGamers, also fleeter.

  • Against escape of fleets:

    - Doesn't take into account rapid fire (a fleet with lots of battlecruisers and cruisers may need a fleet bigger than 5x in value to be a profitable battle)
    - Can't adjust with phalanx fleets returning home
    - Profits of battles will be limited
    - You can have invulnerable planets; just putting there some defenses that are x5 time the value of your fleet

  • Many of the CoMa are old OGamers, also fleeter.
    OK...

    OLD ogamers... it can explain the absolute lack of sense in this version
    Maybe you don't know that the period when fleeters were overpowered and ultra-efficient is over since many years...
    Today, fleeters have no targets and must send massive flotte in long distances. The cost in deuterium is not 1 or 2 millions when you launch an attack, but 50 or 100 millions

    It represents more than a week of production for a miner, you can't send your fleet many times because a legal bot gives 20% chance making your raid useless
    And please, don"t say that it can destroy the stock of deuterium... it's just silly. I'm raider since years and I can guarantee you that this strategy is useless and unefficient...

  • It's all well known.

    And missing targets are a reason to change something in the OGame gameplay. There is only one reason why there are no targets .. their fleet was killed by other fleeter.
    This new feature is not only a change of the existing noobprotection, it's a solution to keep the player for a longer time in the game.
    It is NOT a solution to decrease the deut consumption for better fleeting - this kills only the last few possible targets.

    Current situation : The top players get most of the killable fleet.


    New situation : Cause of the limits there are many steps between little player and top player, therefore all the player in the middle have a chance to find some targets - The universe becomes much more active for a longer time. And every "middle" player becomes sooner or later a target for the top ones.
    In this situation you can do something more for fleeter, also decrease deut consumption.

  • For interested people - Here is a longer discussion between me, Azgaroth, benneb and MajorT - maybe you find some explaining details. Please keep in mind that this discussion is a few weeks old, some things may changed.


    Display Spoiler

    (22:57:15)<Francolino>this is the next sensefull step for the wiki
    (22:57:48)<MajorT>I guess this wiki will give too many infos to noobs, we shell burn it after completing it lol
    (22:57:55)<Francolino>*rofl*
    (22:58:03)<Francolino>agree, would be a nice great fire
    (23:00:07)<Francolino>well .. now i try to start with working on the tool...
    (23:00:13)<Francolino>i did nothing the last 2 days
    (23:02:34)<MajorT>I have to go and shout against GF instead
    (23:03:12)<Francolino>shout ?
    (23:03:41)<MajorT>yes, about the new changes forecoming
    (23:03:53)<MajorT>they are sick like hell
    (23:04:05)<Francolino>*lol* have fun :)
    (23:04:11)<MajorT>almost giving the definitive hit to the gameplay
    (23:04:16)<Francolino>and read details before you start shouting
    (23:04:41)<MajorT>now you will be free to choose which officer to buy, mine and that's it: the new ogame!! -.-
    (23:05:12)<MajorT>mate farming will be not possible anymore, that's a fact
    (23:05:53)<Az>thank you MajorT ^^
    (23:06:07)<Az>finally someone that realizeses it
    (23:06:28)<MajorT>well I took 3 minutes to realize it, guess they had more time to think about it
    (23:06:44)<Francolino>hmm sure ?
    (23:06:49)<MajorT>yes
    (23:06:53)<MajorT>110% sure
    (23:07:05)<MajorT>just checked in electra, where I play, how things would change
    (23:07:14)<Francolino>you are wrong.
    (23:07:26)<MajorT>I could raid just the top-800 in a 7k players universe
    (23:07:35)<Francolino>please keep in mind that this coming changes are only planned for new universes
    (23:07:54)<Az>they will be implemented on old unis too
    (23:07:55)<MajorT>where the top-900 has 3.100.000 points so not really easy to find such a player to farm ^^
    (23:08:03)<Francolino>az ? No
    (23:08:09)<Az>just like RD, the players never has a saying
    (23:08:58)<Francolino>well the basic problem of Ogame is that to many new players leaves the game cause of heave farming
    (23:08:58)<Az>it even says in the thread that it "might" be implemented in old unis, slightly modified
    (23:09:17)<Francolino>many of them are afraid about the possibility that anyone can kill them
    (23:09:23)<Az>I´m not having a huge problem with the new noob protection
    (23:09:30)<Az>just the escaping fleets
    (23:09:47)<MajorT>yeah that's another unbelievable stuff!
    (23:09:48)<Az>it´s gonna completely destroy the mechanics of the game
    (23:09:50)<Francolino>az .. maybe they change the ratio to 10:1
    (23:10:00)<Az>why have a ratio at all?
    (23:10:05)<Az>makes absolutely no sense
    (23:10:13)<MajorT>protecting the noobs so that all the experienced one will leave! wonderful plan indeed!! god bless the noobs!
    (23:10:14)<Az>it doesn´t protect noobs at all
    (23:10:17)<Francolino>for escaping fleets ? yes ofc
    (23:10:42)<Az>but I mean, what is the point of the whole escaping fleets Francolino?
    (23:10:48)<Az>I don´t get it
    (23:10:58)<Francolino>Majort .. one questions .. what are the experienced ones are missing in Ogame ?
    (23:11:02)<Francolino>Targets
    (23:11:03)<Az>it helps turtles, no one else
    (23:11:20)<Francolino>Az they know the turtle problem
    (23:11:44)<Az>but the purpose of it is to protect weaker players right?
    (23:11:54)<MajorT>Francolino: you don't see how many will leave? the problem in ogame is that the PRO are leaving, not the noobs!! There is no strategy anymore in this game, that's the main problem
    (23:12:00)<Francolino>and they think about solutions to avoid those big turtles or change something to make them destroyable again
    (23:12:08)<MajorT>not a 15 yo quitting because I raided him badly
    (23:12:13)<Francolino>No Majort
    (23:12:24)<Francolino>the problem of Ogame is, that too many noobs are leaving
    (23:13:05)<Francolino>I know such a lot of good gamers who are gone after 3 kills
    (23:13:26)<Francolino>and without "noobs" no one is able to rebuild his account
    (23:13:34)<Francolino>where to find targets ?
    (23:13:45)<MajorT>noobs are replaced by other noobs, that's the fact, but now there is no way for a noob to become a PRO, to whish something like "I want to become like Francolino who crashed MajorT in that peculiar way"..... things like that are missing at all nowadays
    (23:14:00)<Francolino><MajorT>noobs are replaced by other noobs, <- but they are leaving to fast
    (23:14:14)<MajorT>well, maybe this game is not the only one in the world
    (23:14:22)<MajorT>that's nothing you can stop I mean
    (23:14:32)<Francolino>yes that*s the basic problem
    (23:14:35)<MajorT>the market is much bigger than what it was 6 years ago
    (23:14:39)<Francolino>yes
    (23:14:47)<Francolino>but what's the sulotion ?
    (23:14:58)<Francolino>new players want fun
    (23:15:01)<Francolino>nothing else
    (23:15:21)<Francolino>and playing as farm for anyone is NOT fun
    (23:15:22)<MajorT>make the game more strategical, give more steps of progression, not like in the tutorial of course :D
    (23:15:47)<Francolino>MajorT in general, those steps are coming
    (23:16:10)<Francolino>but you have to help first new players to keep a game
    (23:16:22)<Az>I agree with MajorT, Ogame has been "stupified", less and less is separating noobs from pros
    (23:16:41)<Francolino>az i know this arguments since i am playing
    (23:16:56)<Az>sure something needs to be done, but destroying the game isn´t the solution i m o
    (23:16:56)<MajorT>I don't know, since the coming of the moon-colo uncatchable fs I guess the game started dying. They had to give the players another way to make "mission impossible" instead they are killing also farming and raiding noobs and overkill!
    (23:17:00)<Francolino>all "cracks" from 2004 told me this .. the "new ones can only play with tools" ..
    (23:17:04)<MajorT>Did you think about overkill?
    (23:17:08)<Francolino>those from 2005 told me this ..
    (23:17:17)<Az>Francolino: it´s not the same ^^
    (23:17:26)<MajorT>it's not possible anymore! The really top crasher will be totally disgusted
    (23:17:29)<Francolino>Az .. in a summary it is
    (23:17:38)<Az>I don´t agree at all Francolino
    (23:17:45)<Francolino>hehe i see :)
    (23:17:48)<Az>I´ve played since 2005
    (23:18:06)<Az>not until RD did I have a real problem with stupid changes
    (23:18:09)<Francolino>Please, don't missunderstand me ..
    (23:18:18)<MajorT>sometimes you want to catch 100 rips, but you don't know if the player could gate or deploy the rest of the fleet, so you send overkill. Now the defender has just to wait for the attack and make himself a mojito: the battle will not take place!!!
    (23:18:22)<MajorT>ridiculous!
    (23:18:22)<Francolino>i agree when you say "ogame becomes more and more stupid"
    (23:18:24)<Francolino>etc
    (23:18:34)<Francolino>but we have different views if this is sensefull or not
    (23:18:40)<Francolino>for me it IS sensefull
    (23:18:49)<Az>MajorT: that´s exactly what I meant in the thread, blind phalanx is out of the question in that case
    (23:19:02)<MajorT>of course
    (23:19:09)<Az>sometimes it´s tactical to send overkill
    (23:19:15)<Az>you just have to
    (23:19:31)<Francolino>People, .. please write those arguments in the discussion thread
    (23:19:37)<MajorT>that is why I say the top crasher will quit completely after this new rule!
    (23:19:39)<Francolino>and please, don't think they don't know this
    (23:19:39)<Az>I already have ^^
    (23:20:05)<Az>MajorT: I will quit if that feature comes to my uni
    (23:20:05)<Francolino>Once again .. the coming origin test server is to figure out correct settings
    (23:20:27)<Francolino>az .. there is only a very little chance that the noob protection comes to old unis
    (23:20:40)<Az>I´m not saying they don´t know about the problems, I just don´t think they care Francolino
    (23:20:41)<Francolino>they KNOW that this are big changes in the balance
    (23:20:52)<Francolino>read my words
    (23:20:56)<Az>I did
    (23:21:03)<Az>i still don´t think they care
    (23:21:11)<Francolino>they care about this, therefore they are NOT planning to bring this to old univers
    (23:21:12)<Az>they never have before
    (23:21:26)<Az>ok, I hope you´re right
    (23:21:27)<Francolino>i know that most of all team member think so
    (23:21:28)<Az>I really do
    (23:21:32)<Francolino>and i disagree
    (23:21:46)<Francolino>I know a lot of discussions and minds ..
    (23:22:33)<Az>what about all changes to activity after RD, did anyone want that?
    (23:22:35)<Francolino>for anyone who dislike given changes it looks like " they don't care .."
    (23:23:07)<Az>It´s not about disliking, they´re just plain stupid, they don´t add value to the gameplay
    (23:23:19)<Az>just makes the game stupider
    (23:23:21)<Francolino>hmm .. your opinion
    (23:23:44)<Az>how does the new activity rules add value?
    (23:24:08)<Az>ninja is impossible for instance
    (23:24:15)<Az>unless you´re playing a moron
    (23:24:20)<Az>how is that good?
    (23:25:24)<Francolino>Az, i agree with you when you say : I miss those tactical things
    (23:25:42)<Az>all players miss that
    (23:25:48)<Francolino>and yes, for me the best Ogame was those short before the RD cames
    (23:25:57)<Az>I agree
    (23:26:01)<Francolino>a lot of tactical details for fleeter
    (23:26:02)<Az>it was perfected
    (23:26:20)<Francolino>but at last THIS was the problem
    (23:26:35)<Francolino>only a few very good players knows most of them
    (23:26:47)<Az>I don´t really see that as a problem
    (23:26:48)<Francolino>many other thought : This game is wrong, they are cheating
    (23:27:01)<Francolino>it was a big problem a really big problem
    (23:27:13)<Az>well if you´re bad at chess, are you still supposed to win?
    (23:27:18)<Francolino>People who don't understand those details a leaving a game
    (23:27:24)<Francolino>az ....
    (23:27:33)<Francolino>we are NOT talking about me and you and MajorT
    (23:27:40)<Francolino>or better .. i
    (23:27:45)<Az>the thing is that you don´t exactly have to know everything to get by
    (23:27:50)<Az>but it helps
    (23:27:54)<Francolino>i am talking about deeper reasons why so much people leaved ogame
    (23:28:29)<Az>I understand, I just thing it´s sad to destroy the best web based game that was ever made
    (23:28:34)<Az>think*
    (23:28:40)<benneb>i think , fleet need to be recover like defense
    (23:29:01)<benneb>you were attacked, you recover 70%
    (23:29:05)<Az>that is a way better choice than fleet escaping Bazinga|ZNC
    (23:29:08)<Az>benneb*
    (23:29:11)<Francolino>Hmm well, i would love a decision from GF when they say : We restart a new server with Ogame 0.8x
    (23:29:43)<Francolino>benneb .. this idea was the second way next to this one which is coming now
    (23:29:55)<Francolino>but .. rebuilding fleet generates many many res at last
    (23:30:05)<Francolino>the "top" player grows up much faster
    (23:30:16)<Francolino>and becomes much more unreachable
    (23:30:22)<Az>probably true
    (23:30:30)<Francolino>so they rejected this way
    (23:30:35)<Az>but there has to be a solution for that
    (23:30:55)<MajorT>well it could be just 30% rebuilding, so that the more you have the more you loose (anything under 50% acts like that) :P
    (23:31:01)<Francolino>az they spend a lot of discussions to decide between both ways
    (23:31:25)<Az>it just makes me laugh that escaping fleets is what they came up with
    (23:31:35)<Az>since it doens´t help noobs in any way
    (23:31:42)<Francolino>Please believe me that Wth is really interested to balance this coming noob protection
    (23:32:16)<Az>but how is escaping fleets supposed to help weak players?
    (23:32:21)<Francolino>He said often enough that this feature need a longer test phase with a public server
    (23:32:29)<Francolino>az ..
    (23:32:41)<Az>it doesn´t make any sense
    (23:32:44)<Francolino>many player are complaining that everyone can kill them
    (23:32:48)<benneb>all big fleeter will stop ogame, if they will spend 50M and defenser can escape ... , and attacker give nothing :(
    (23:32:58)<Francolino>and yes, for me 5:1 is "to strong"
    (23:33:04)<Francolino>maybe 10:1 is better
    (23:33:20)<Az>the thing is that it doesn´t really matter
    (23:33:29)<benneb>escape ok, but attacker need to win something
    (23:33:32)<Az>i can just send 4.99:1 and you´re still dead
    (23:33:41)<benneb>like all comsuption ...
    (23:33:43)<Az>so it doesn´t help noobs
    (23:33:54)<Francolino>Hmm for me there is an easy solution
    (23:33:56)<Francolino>reduce ..
    (23:33:59)<Francolino>see benneb
    (23:34:12)<MajorT>in some cases it can increase the defender losse _a lot_!!
    (23:34:28)<benneb>if defenser win something with this new feature, attacker NEED to win also
    (23:34:37)<Az>that is one solution, and it´s not bad under the circumstances benneb
    (23:34:55)<Az>i still think the whole idea of escaping fleets is bad though
    (23:35:09)<benneb>not bad, but inccomplete
    (23:35:11)<Francolino>az, reducing the deut consumption and adding those noob prot. changes is a very good combination
    (23:35:29)<MajorT>think about: 10k cargos under a turtle, I want those 10k cargos, so first I flatten the turtle with 10 rip waves, then I crash the 10k cargo with 50k LF, which is less than 5:1, not the defender lost his 10k cargos AND his turtle, with the actual rules he would have lost MUCH LESS
    (23:35:45)<MajorT>*now the defender....
    (23:36:11)<Az>it also takes about 100x longer to do that MajorT
    (23:36:12)<Francolino>it's not the rough number of ships which matter
    (23:36:33)<MajorT>well I play in a 4x so it's really not that unprobable such an action
    (23:36:43)<benneb>i am very serious when i say that fleeter stop ogame, if defender escape ...
    (23:36:49)<Az>in speed unis perhaps not MajorT
    (23:36:58)<Az>but in regular unis
    (23:37:09)<Francolino>benneb, for sure, some are quitting, ofc
    (23:37:12)<benneb>50md for nothing .... in old universe, fleeter find 50md on 1 month :/
    (23:37:25)<Francolino>but i am also sure that a lot of them stays
    (23:37:33)<Francolino>i know
    (23:37:59)<Az>but Francolino, I still don´t think you understand what I´m getting at
    (23:38:11)<Francolino>Well, please post this detail in the discussion thread benneb
    (23:38:15)<Az>I don´t see how the escaping fleets would help noobs
    (23:38:25)<Francolino>I do
    (23:38:25)<Az>i can just send less ships
    (23:38:38)<benneb>they dont loose their fleet, so they dont stop
    (23:38:39)<MajorT>I've been posting in .org board, I'll copy and past my flaming posts in origin too :D
    (23:38:46)<Francolino>I see your problems and views .. cause i played long enough as heavy fleeter
    (23:38:55)<Az>but they will lose their ships benneb
    (23:39:01)<Az>if I just send less than 5:1
    (23:39:07)<Francolino>but i understand also many players which are afraid about that anyone can kill them
    (23:39:09)<Az>so how does it help them?
    (23:39:32)<Francolino>Az, its a "feeling"
    (23:39:39)<Francolino>it's an important feeling
    (23:39:45)<Az>feeling about what?
    (23:40:17)<Francolino>for many player it's inequitably that anyone can kill them without a change
    (23:40:20)<Az>it will take about 2 days for everyone to figure out to just send less than 5:1
    (23:40:29)<Francolino>and it's a very important reason why they quite ogame
    (23:40:37)<Francolino>Yes !!
    (23:40:40)<Francolino>you don't got it
    (23:40:51)<Az>obviously not
    (23:41:00)<Az>so please explain how it helps noobs
    (23:41:08)<Az>because I really don´t get it
    (23:41:12)<Francolino>well ..
    (23:41:23)<Francolino>I think in general you got it
    (23:41:44)<Francolino>For lower players it's really inequitably that anyone can kill them
    (23:41:50)<Az>yes?
    (23:41:56)<Francolino>yes, it is
    (23:42:00)<Francolino>believe me
    (23:42:03)<Az>I know, and...
    (23:42:06)<Francolino>ok
    (23:42:28)<Francolino>well, if you can attack only with less than 5:1 ratio
    (23:42:44)<Francolino>THIS Noob alliance HAS a change to ACS defend
    (23:43:05)<Francolino>so little player can fight against the top player
    (23:43:08)<benneb>and the 10% rules, if i am top 1 with 50M points, so i can't attack under 5m points ^^ , this rule help noob, but this rule is agaisnt big fleeeter ( again )
    (23:43:24)<Francolino>Yes, it tis
    (23:43:29)<Francolino>but once again ..
    (23:43:42)<Francolino>without new player NO top fleeter has targets
    (23:43:46)<benneb>i am agree with this, but attacker need something
    (23:43:50)<Francolino>look around any old universe
    (23:43:54)<Francolino>targets ?
    (23:43:56)<Francolino>nothing
    (23:44:00)<Francolino>yes
    (23:44:08)<Az>Francolino: people who are actually able to coordinate a ninja are generally not the kind of players that will quit because of losing a couple of ships
    (23:44:09)<Francolino>targets need a chance to grow up
    (23:44:29)<benneb>ok agree with this
    (23:44:33)<Francolino>az they don*'t need to be able to do this
    (23:44:41)<Francolino>they need the feeling they CAN
    (23:45:08)<Az>I agree that, that is important
    (23:45:11)<Francolino>Seems i can't explain you how big this problem is
    (23:45:26)<Az>no I understand
    (23:45:30)<Francolino>really .. i talked with many many players cause of my team jobs
    (23:45:38)<Francolino>50% complaints about THIS
    (23:45:40)<Az>but it also completely destroys other parts of the game
    (23:45:42)<Francolino>"i have no chance" ..
    (23:45:47)<MajorT>frank I guess in ogame noobs have just to learn ho to fleetsave
    (23:45:49)<Francolino>Really ?
    (23:45:58)<Francolino>majorT they have, yes
    (23:46:12)<Francolino>but i see at last only ONE problem in Ogame
    (23:46:19)<Francolino>missing new players and targets
    (23:46:33)<Az>Francolino: that is not going to solve that problem sadly
    (23:46:42)<Francolino>where is the sense of big fleets, great knowledge about tactics etc
    (23:46:51)<Francolino>when there are no targets ?
    (23:46:58)<Francolino>Az, it is
    (23:47:05)<Az>out of those 50% that complains about it, maybe 1% will see the opportunity you propose
    (23:47:12)<Francolino>Or explain me where the targets comes from ?
    (23:47:14)<Az>so no, it won´t
    (23:47:54)<Az>out of those 50%, 49% will still be crashed, with the 5:1 ratio rule
    (23:48:12)<Francolino>az but they don't leave a game cause they are crashed
    (23:48:28)<Az>they will still say that they have no chance
    (23:48:28)<Francolino>the leave a game cause they are crashed in inequitably cases !!!!!
    (23:48:34)<Francolino>THIS is the difference
    (23:48:51)<Francolino>I am sure this changes a lot
    (23:49:05)<Az>yeah well, they get crashed because they are worse players, not because of their fleetsize
    (23:49:06)<Francolino>we have really opposite views here
    (23:49:12)<Francolino>correct
    (23:49:35)<Francolino>but once again .. where do you think comes targets from ?
    (23:49:47)<Francolino>without targets a "wargame" like ogame is NO game
    (23:49:57)<Az>I understand what you´re trying to do, I´m just very certain that it will change nothing
    (23:50:12)<Francolino>you forget that a big fleeter should be hunt only "middle" player"
    (23:50:24)<Francolino>cause the "middle player" need the little player to grow up
    (23:50:30)<Francolino>the current situation is ..
    (23:50:34)<Francolino>the big player gets all
    (23:50:49)<Az>well the regular new noob protection takes care of that problem
    (23:50:52)<Francolino>show me "middle player" with fleet in older unis
    (23:50:56)<Az>and I don´t have a problem with that
    (23:50:56)<Francolino>dead, nothing
    (23:51:19)<Francolino>az .. when the middle player get all "noobs"
    (23:51:30)<Francolino>the top player find much much more targets
    (23:51:39)<Francolino>and better targets
    (23:51:55)<MajorT>old unis are dying because they open too many new ones, and the merging of the unis is already quite a solution to this point imho
    (23:51:59)<Az>I agree, but as I said, the "regular" noob protection will take care of that
    (23:52:00)<Francolino>this is what the noob protection does for fleeter
    (23:52:14)<Francolino>MarjoT it is
    (23:52:19)<Francolino>but what happens ?
    (23:52:30)<Francolino>the best once kills all other in a short time
    (23:52:37)<Francolino>*ones
    (23:52:57)<MajorT>well that is not so mathematical if they make merge uni with acs
    (23:52:59)<Francolino>The basic problem of Ogame is, that to much people leave the game cause they are crashed
    (23:53:20)<Az>so we will try to mimic sim city
    (23:53:23)<Az>=)
    (23:53:24)<Francolino>and for me this noob prot. feature change this basic problem
    (23:53:28)<Francolino>hehe no
    (23:53:30)<Francolino>you are wrong
    (23:53:37)<Az>I was joking :P
    (23:53:38)<Francolino>i ask you again
    (23:53:50)<Francolino>what's ogame in older unis without targets ?
    (23:54:07)<benneb>miner =)
    (23:54:11)<Francolino>we can write nice guides as we want about any detail
    (23:54:14)<Francolino>but for what ?
    (23:54:15)<Az>Francolino: I think every aspect of the new noob protection can be good, except escaping fleets
    (23:54:31)<MajorT>I dont :p
    (23:54:34)<Az>so I don´t disagree with the rest
    (23:54:50)<Francolino>Az .... yes most of team member have only here a problem
    (23:54:58)<Az>MajorT: I don´t think it´s perfect now, but it can be modified to work
    (23:55:15)<Francolino>Well, this is the reason for the origin test server
    (23:55:25)<Francolino>figure it out if the settings are good or not
    (23:55:33)<Francolino>No one can calculate this really
    (23:55:39)<MajorT>saving "few noobs" and deleting farming as a technique to play it's much a bigger loss than loosing little babies crying when they loose a fleet left sitting on a planet for 2 days
    (23:55:55)<Francolino>I disagree MajorT
    (23:56:03)<MajorT>or fleetsaving in harvest mission or whatever
    (23:56:04)<Francolino>in a first view you are right
    (23:56:24)<Francolino>but this view is the reason why ogame has such a few new player
    (23:57:24)<MajorT>sorry but I think this isn't anything they can stop with these new rules, and not even with other new rules at all. Noobs will quit at the first problem, because they ARE noobs :)
    (23:57:37)<Francolino>no
    (23:57:45)<Francolino>you are completly wrong
    (23:57:57)<Az>I´m with MajorT on this
    (23:58:00)<MajorT>the solution is how to let the noobs become (or willing to be) pro
    (23:58:05)<Az>it´s exactly my point
    (23:58:19)<MajorT>if they don't want to learn the strategies of this game, well byebye
    (23:58:32)<Francolino>MajorT but why they should learn how to play Ogame when they have no good feeling ?
    (23:58:57)<Az>they will get crashed eventually
    (23:59:00)<MajorT>simply as I did: I had a good feeling, and I went on and on
    (23:59:03)<Francolino>You forget that most of the player want to play just for fun
    (23:59:14)<Az>and it´s better to lose 2k points in fleet first time, than 1M
    (23:59:17)<Francolino>Yes they get crashed
    (23:59:20)<MajorT>if they like pokemon or simcity, let them play pokemon of simcity
    (23:59:28)<MajorT>*or
    (23:59:40)<Francolino>but i can only tell once again that there is a big difference in which case you are crashed
    (23:59:57)<Francolino>*they are
    (23:59:58)<Az>not according to my experience


    Samstag, 19. März 2011

    (00:00:14)<Francolino>you are top player since ? ... :PPP
    (00:00:23)<Francolino>you are living in another world az :P
    (00:00:30)<Az>well I´ve played several unis other than that
    (00:00:35)<Az>recently as well
    (00:00:55)<Francolino>yeah but you are switching of your knowledge about ogame ?
    (00:01:01)<Az>noobs will quit because they feel they have no chance, I agree with that
    (00:01:05)<Francolino>and .. YOU find the way to love ogame :)
    (00:01:23)<Az>but they will feel they have no chance whoever is attacking them
    (00:01:30)<Az>regardless of how big they are
    (00:01:34)<Francolino>No, here you are wrong
    (00:01:46)<Az>well, I guess time will tell =)
    (00:01:57)<Francolino>In nearly all discussions this is the most written sentences
    (00:02:28)<Francolino>"I have no problem if #200 kills me .. but from #3 ? No,this is a stupid game .."
    (00:03:21)<Francolino><Az>well, I guess time will tell =) <-- correct,
    (00:03:30)<Francolino>No one can see in future
    (00:03:57)<Az>no point in discussing it further eitherway, none of us are going to change their opinion =)
    (00:04:35)<Francolino>well, is this the reason of discussions ?
    (00:04:38)<Francolino>i think no
    (00:04:46)<Az>no not at all
    (00:04:52)<Francolino>the reason is to hear other opinions
    (00:04:59)<Az>I just think we both have said everything we need to
    (00:05:06)<Francolino>yes, ofc
    (00:05:48)<MajorT>btw frank, 2 hits I made recently: one with rip on a turtle, the other one a gravi in pos1 with 4.3k sats
    (00:06:10)<MajorT>the first one told me: great hit, it was an honour to be hit by your xxxx rips lol
    (00:06:20)<Francolino>hehe yeah :)
    (00:06:26)<MajorT>the second one telling me: ouch, I didn't finished it yet, I have to restart it now :p
    (00:06:33)<Francolino>many turtles are only waiting for an attack
    (00:06:43)<MajorT>so..... they weren't at all in the mood of quitting
    (00:06:51)<MajorT>why?
    (00:06:52)<Francolino>i knew those notes
    (00:07:05)<MajorT>believe me: I was MUCH stronger than them :P
    (00:07:21)<Francolino>well.. they are no beginner ;-)
    (00:07:34)<Francolino>or did he win his turtle somewhere ? :P
    (00:07:37)<MajorT>not really beginners, but anyway they cannot compete against me
    (00:07:44)<Francolino>right
    (00:07:58)<MajorT>still they didn't feel like "oh this game is stupid, you can attack me, I quit"
    (00:08:21)<Francolino>but we are not talking about those ones
    (00:08:22)<MajorT>so what I mean is just that going after the real noobs is pointless to save this game
    (00:08:35)<Francolino>and , that turtles are a problem . i told about this
    (00:09:55)<MajorT>anyway..... I'm sure the mourning will go on in these days...... let's see what happens in uni680
    (00:10:02)<MajorT>so that we can flame better in the future :)
    (00:11:06)<Francolino>hehe yes
    (00:11:45)<Francolino>well .. one question to you guys .. anyone against to post this log in the team section ?
    (00:11:58)<benneb>let's go
    (00:11:59)<Francolino>I think some of them like to read this
    (00:12:15)<MajorT>sure
    (00:12:26)<Francolino>Az
    (00:12:31)<Francolino>your vote :P
    (00:13:00)<Az>I´m not against it :P
    (00:13:09)<Francolino>ok, thanks




    Added the second part, same mates.
    Display Spoiler

    (00:27:11)<Francolino>i prefer for Az' postings transparent :PPP
    (00:27:54)<Francolino>and you can add a 'zzzz' from Kebab in pink *hehe*
    (00:30:46)<Az>D:
    (00:32:26)<benneb>color added
    (00:34:01)<Francolino>thanks benneb :)
    - 7 min, 29 sec
    (00:41:30)<MajorT>nooooo...... I'm green, I don't like it mhuahhahaha
    - 7 min, 55 sec
    (00:49:25)<Az>Francolino: I think I might have a modification to the escaping fleets thing
    (00:49:52)<Az>I think it needs to be a ratio of the defenders total fleet, not only the one that´s defending
    (00:50:05)<Az>that would solve the blind phalanx problem at least
    (00:50:10)<Francolino>Hmmm
    (00:50:20)<Az>not the turtle problem, but it´s a start
    (00:50:34)<Francolino>well, the turtle problem would be solved
    (00:50:38)<Francolino>wth knews it
    (00:50:52)<Francolino>i've seen some ideas here
    (00:51:12)<Az>I think it would work much better, don´t you?
    (00:51:15)<Francolino>but your idea is good
    (00:51:18)<Francolino>yes
    (00:51:35)<Az>they still wouldn´t feel completely helpless
    (00:51:54)<Az>since it could just as easily be their entire fleet I´m attacking
    (00:52:19)<Francolino>well, at first i see your argument cause of blind lanx
    (00:52:56)<MajorT>again: that would save miners one more time, also because "civil ships" count for 50% if I'm not wrong, so they are almost not-attackable
    (00:53:17)<MajorT>especially if under a turtle
    (00:53:44)<MajorT>if the attacker is a top fleeter he will have a huge reductions of targets too
    (00:54:14)<Az>as I said MajorT, it wouldn´t solve the turtleproblem, but it´s a start
    (00:54:33)<Az>defense needs to be calculated against the 5:1 ratio in some way as well
    (00:54:39)<MajorT>it's a different unbalancement :p
    (00:54:42)<Az>otherwise it will never work
    (00:54:58)<Francolino>Az, yes maybe they add defense in the military highscore
    (00:55:08)<Francolino>to see if you match the 5:1 rule
    (00:55:13)<Az>mm
    (00:55:38)<Az>why civil ships only count as 50% I don´t understand though
    (00:55:59)<Francolino>i am not sure about the number .. if 50%
    (00:56:22)<Francolino>civil ships counts less than battle ships
    (00:56:33)<Az>MajorT: however my proposal helps that problem, it doesn´t increase it
    (00:57:05)<Az>if their civil ships are spread on different planets for instance
    (00:57:07)<Francolino>MajorT where you have seen a information about 50%
    (00:57:18)<Az>I think it says so in the thread Francolino
    (00:57:23)<Francolino>hmm no
    (00:57:31)<MajorT>from .org
    (00:57:35)<MajorT>let me check
    (00:58:01)<Francolino>ah yes
    (00:58:11)<Francolino>no, it's in the summary from syras
    (00:58:22)<Francolino>Protection of weaker user
    (00:58:26)<Francolino>sorry, my fault
    (00:58:27)<Az>mm
    (00:58:34)<Az>just found it :P
    (01:00:10)<Francolino>Well .. this feature CHANGE the current balance, no question
    (01:00:57)<Francolino>maybe you see the chance to help here and find better adjustments :)
    (01:01:08)<MajorT>I guess using the total fleet value (don't know exactly which is the correct new name) will let the top fleeter really really really upset
    (01:01:11)<Francolino>and .. to give OGame a better chance in future
    (01:01:26)<Francolino>why ?
    (01:01:27)<MajorT>in electra it could mean that the top-1 can hunt just the top-20, maybe less :s
    (01:02:24)<Az>you misunderstood me MajorT
    (01:02:28)<Francolino>yes
    (01:02:35)<Az>what you send vs. his entire fleet
    (01:02:40)<Az>not what you have in total
    (01:03:07)<MajorT>aaaaaah well that is differnt indeed :P
    (01:03:20)<Az>you can have 100 times bigger fleet as long as you don´t send more than 5:1 against his entire fleet :P
    (01:03:28)<Francolino>i am sure this idea from Az DONT upset any fleeter :)
    (01:03:34)<MajorT>yes I got ya now
    (01:03:38)<Az>haha, I would hope not :D
    (01:04:03)<MajorT>maybe it will turn the escape thing totally useless or "nearly totally useless" so GF won't like it too much
    (01:04:19)<Az>well it doesn´t really change it
    (01:04:25)<Francolino>Well .. at last the hideouts are really useless
    (01:04:27)<Az>for the defender
    (01:04:38)<Francolino>but they help many users to have a better feeling
    (01:04:40)<Az>yes the hideouts are completely useless
    (01:05:01)<Francolino>if they want they can give many res for them and hide res ..
    (01:05:16)<Francolino>be sure a lot of player like this
    (01:05:23)<Az>I agree that it will probably have a soothing effect
    (01:05:33)<MajorT>they also take fields..... but weren't them underwater? lol
    (01:05:41)<Francolino>I see the same about the auto fleet saving feature
    (01:05:43)<Az>even if it doesn´t really do anything :P
    (01:05:59)<Francolino>Well, for now they take fields :)
    (01:06:08)<Francolino>This is not figured out at last
    (01:06:56)<MajorT>so now with the new depo I have to use let's say 40 fields for storages + other "how-many" for hideouts? In RD where ahving a 200 fields colo is almost a miracle? tsk!
    (01:07:07)<Az>I don´t think they really beed to take up fields as long as they´re useless
    (01:07:22)<Az>need*
    (01:07:35)<Francolino>MT .. well .. see the among you can store
    (01:07:39)<Francolino>it's really senseless
    (01:07:45)<Francolino>especial for better players
    (01:07:51)<MajorT>they said maybe terraformer rules are going to change, but I didn't get if it will cost more or what else
    (01:08:00)<Francolino>you can't hide the production of a day
    (01:08:06)<Az>they´ll realize sooner or later that it doesn´t really help them as the costs for the hideouts go up
    (01:08:07)<Francolino>i said it ;-)
    (01:08:17)<Francolino>it's not an official posting for now
    (01:08:41)<Francolino>Az well .. a lot of things in Ogame are senseless ;-)
    (01:08:59)<Az>I know, I meant it as a good thing :P
    (01:09:04)<Francolino>but ogame NEED noobs and "stupid" players
    (01:09:11)<Az>of course
    (01:09:14)<Francolino>we can talk about them as we want
    (01:09:33)<Francolino>but without those ones who are playing just for fun this game is dead
    (01:10:01)<Francolino>And they need those senseless things ..
    (01:10:11)<Francolino>for them it's the first way to start.
    (01:10:22)<Francolino>I am sure they feel much better
    (01:10:35)<MajorT>yes, much better them than destroying the gameplay in fact ^^
    (01:10:40)<Francolino>and i am sure we find a lot of very high Hideouts :PP
    (01:10:47)<Francolino>like storages on the moon
    (01:11:12)<Az>storages on the moon are great :P
    (01:11:21)<MajorT>I also found sats on moon once ^^
    (01:11:24)<Francolino>yes, no red numbers :)
    (01:11:26)<Francolino>hehe
    (01:11:28)<Az>haha
    (01:11:35)<Az>hate those red numbers
    (01:11:44)<Az>=)
    (01:12:14)<Francolino>MT i am sure that also better and best player find enough things to go on with funny game
    (01:12:33)<Francolino>for example the autosave of fleet ..
    (01:12:57)<Francolino>they can only start with enough deut
    (01:13:10)<Francolino>and ..
    (01:13:14)<Francolino>RES would NOT saved !
    (01:13:19)<MajorT>sure, but you cannot give a candy to a noob and take 1 liter of blood out of a pro, that's why I don't like the escaping fleet stuff
    (01:13:21)<Francolino>start a wave
    (01:13:34)<Francolino>yes i know
    (01:13:37)<MajorT>give something stupid, and take away something fundamental!!
    (01:14:03)<Francolino>but you CANT help little players without reduce something for better player
    (01:14:13)<Francolino>if you want this there is only one way
    (01:14:17)<Francolino>add bots to the game
    (01:14:28)<Francolino>and .. you like to fight only against bots ?
    (01:14:34)<Francolino>I am not
    (01:15:12)<MajorT>no? well you could increase the "old noob protection" to 15k points and let them play with a 2x factor towards the rest of the uni, just to say the first bullshit coming to my mind
    (01:15:15)<Francolino>In short .. anything what you do for little players comes from the bigger player
    (01:15:27)<MajorT>that is funny for noobs and takes nothing away from anyone
    (01:15:28)<Francolino>This dont solves the problem
    (01:15:52)<MajorT>I know but the new rules create many problems trying to solve one, and not even solving it really
    (01:16:14)<Francolino>well but this feature solve THE problem of Ogame
    (01:16:26)<Francolino>not one little problem
    (01:16:49)<Francolino>Nothing makes sense if Ogame isn't able to get more player
    (01:16:57)<MajorT>I told you: all the big fleeter will leave the game. Is it a solution maybe, cause nobody will be crashed anymore, but.... meh!
    (01:17:18)<Francolino>Well maybe HERE is a chance for ogame ..
    (01:17:25)<Francolino>what happens if the top fleeter goes ?
    (01:17:35)<Francolino>the middle fleeter have a chance
    (01:17:38)<MajorT>that ogame turns into onoob lol
    (01:17:43)<Francolino>Maybe
    (01:17:49)<Francolino>Here i agree with you
    (01:18:10)<Francolino>but better ONoob than Owhat ?
    (01:18:24)<Az>I`m not sure I agree with that =)
    (01:18:29)<MajorT>it's not owhat, you can't say it is
    (01:18:38)<Francolino>Not yet
    (01:18:44)<MajorT>and the merging of the unis is a _great_ news for all and for the gameplay as well
    (01:18:56)<Francolino>but unifusion solves only the number of players in a given uni
    (01:18:58)<Francolino>nothing else
    (01:19:06)<Az>that is the problem
    (01:19:14)<MajorT>well.... nothing else? it's already a big point!
    (01:19:16)<Az>maybe not for GF but for us
    (01:19:31)<Francolino>Yes, it's important for the current player
    (01:19:37)<Francolino>and in general
    (01:19:37)<Az>GF is trying to solve THEIR problem, not ours =)
    (01:19:48)<Francolino>yeah ,, this is it
    (01:20:02)<Francolino>but maybe this is not a problem of GF ,..
    (01:20:12)<Az>fewer players?
    (01:20:12)<Francolino>maybe it's more a problem of the player
    (01:20:19)<Az>I would think that´s a problem for them
    (01:20:32)<Francolino>I thought in other way
    (01:20:43)<Francolino>If the GF don't solves their problems with ogame
    (01:20:50)<Francolino>the player have nothing
    (01:20:55)<Francolino>so .. both goes together
    (01:21:02)<Az>in a way, yes
    (01:21:19)<MajorT>it's like they want to stop the earth spinning giving kicks in the opposite direction lol
    (01:21:28)<Francolino>*lol*
    (01:21:28)<Az>lol
    (01:22:27)<Francolino>Maybe this is the deeper plan :P
    (01:22:43)<MajorT>that's what I fear in fact lol
    (01:23:25)<MajorT>k guys was a pleasure to flame with you, guess tomorrow I'll keep on doing it, now it's time to collapse :))
    (01:23:30)<MajorT>night all
    (01:23:37)<Az>hehe kk, night =)
    (01:23:37)<Francolino>Ok, .. here i am afraid like you .. i am sure the first test goes very bad :PPP
    (01:23:42)<Francolino>ciao :)
    (01:23:48)<Francolino>flame ?
    (01:24:02)<Az>squirts water on Francolino
    (01:24:12)<MajorT>mahhauwhhahah
    (01:24:17)<Francolino>benneb you can add those text as well :)
    (01:24:24)<MajorT>I call it flame, but it's a positive talking ;)
    (01:24:27)<Francolino>and use other colors :PP
    (01:24:36)<MajorT>quote



    edit benneb, color added

  • Sorry but it is stupid

    I see what is your "strategy" but the response isn't good

    If you really want to keep the players after being destroyed, create a technology who increases mine production by 150% after a massive destruction

    With the fleet escape, big fleeters will stop the game because it gonna be impossible to fight against the miners and nobody will create new fleets because it has no interest and no rentability.

    Seriously...
    Do you imagine that the noobs will keep their fleet alive because of having 20% chance of escape ? Maybe one or two, but for the huge majority, they will be destroyed the next week
    You will just make fleeter strategy weaker than it is soon

    The "honor" is also a bad thing
    The big miners are soon indestructible at 95% of their account.
    Do you realize that this people with metal 40 will be unattackable for the tops because just having civil ships (so, bad honor rank, and impossible for the tops to fight them) ?
    In my universe, with your system, I can't attack the top 1 who has 40 MILLIONS of points because he will be 200-300 ranked in honor !!!!

    And one last thing... you say that "middle players" will create a fleet ??? Please... wake up.
    Why would them create a fleet if it signifies being attackable by the tops ? no... They will just make mines and keeping their rank 400 in honor to be unattackable

  • I didn't read the IRC part yet, I will after this post, but first I have something to answer.
    Francolino, I see that you wrote

    Francolino wrote:

    It's all well known.

    And missing targets are a reason to change something in the OGame gameplay. There is only one reason why there are no targets .. their fleet was killed by other fleeter.
    This new feature is not only a change of the existing noobprotection, it's a solution to keep the player for a longer time in the game.
    It is NOT a solution to decrease the deut consumption for better fleeting - this kills only the last few possible targets.

    Current situation : The top players get most of the killable fleet.


    New situation : Cause of the limits there are many steps between little player and top player, therefore all the player in the middle have a chance to find some targets - The universe becomes much more active for a longer time. And every "middle" player becomes sooner or later a target for the top ones.
    In this situation you can do something more for fleeter, also decrease deut consumption.


    Well, sorry, but we're not wrong, you are. With this new system, of course there will be more fleet, because WE WON'T ATTACK THEM.
    I won't spend 100M of deuterium to attack someone that will escape ! Furthermore, if the guy is turtling, I will lose :
    - A part of my fleet ;
    - A lot of deuterium
    And I will gain nothing, I will even lose millions and millions of ressources. Of course there will be more players, and less players leaving, we can't even attack them now.. Ridiculous, did I already write it ? Oh yeah, like 10 times since yesterday..

    When you go on ogame.org, it says "OGame is a strategy-game set in space. Thousands of players across the world compete at the same time. In order to play you only need a web browser". Now the strategy will be to turtle and avoid making fleet, because it will be useless. Wow, great, this is very strategic my friend. And if you're crazy enough to make some fleet, don't bother ghosting it, because the autofleet is there.

    Once again, why don't you discuss these changes with actual players, real players ? Why do you force such changes without asking the community ?
    I'm gonna talk about Blizzard again.. I know we can't compare GF and Blizzard, but damn, they know how to handle things. Theu make patch, checking the FEEDBACK OF THE COMMUNITY, balancing and adjusting their games that way. What's the point of having Origin, a place to share, to discuss, to improve, if you don't care about the users ?

    I know you're gonna tell me that it's not true, that you care, and so on.
    Fine.
    Two examples :
    - Unifusion : a lot of people explained that mergins existing universes was a bad idea, because of the zombies, and that it would be much better to merge universes on an empty one. Answer : No way. Existing servers only.
    - Fleet save : the community says it's bullshit. I don't understand very well german, so I used google translate for WeTeHa's post, and, merely, the result will be the same, it's that way and we don't fucking care about what you can say about it. It's a shame.