Hyperspacetech increases Cargocapacity

board.de.ogame.gameforge.com/i…ostID=3736687#post3736687

there, use some translator on the posted links by me. And see the problem, if that is too hard, feel free to inform me

This was what I got from the translator:

The proposal was accepted at that time;)And that it is necessary, you can see at every major KB - not even Welti, who actually spoke openly against booster jumpi and co - could fly his biggest without. And that was a 50% uni.plain absurd opSuch a nonsense, and that of an (ex-) GO, whom I respect as a suppliant (e).References rough on:Save deuteriumA post in which I calculate by how long you actually save for large KBsor here:The metagame of OGame and its difficultiesWith beautiful pictures and examples.Anyone who says that an improvement of recyclers is "OP" does not participate in the Lategame. If KBk + recycler are needed for KBs, it is impossible to find them in many cases (because the saving costs are already very high for them) and even if they are present, hardly anyone can set them apart at a reasonable distance.

Couldn't... quite get iit... But are you saying this is OP in any way? If so, for who?

Ok
The ex-GO @sonicbanger said it was an OP change before.

I argued that it wasn't. The biggest CRs on
ogmem.com/cr/charts
are mostly made with booster gates.
---

Now let's look at one of those CRs:
ogmem.com/show/82366
thats 21kk recyclers and we talk about 40% tf, not even 70 or 80

Moving those recyclers costs on one system:
11.499.726.611
If you really are crazy enough to go for 50 systems we talk about:
30.261.694.535 Deut

let's assume deutmines lvl 46 in 7x eco (which is kinda new)
thats 78kk deut per week, 14 planets => you save for like 27 weeks. well every good fleeter has like 4 deutis - so we talk about saving for 2 months just for a try - with mines which arent reached yet (since those mines would cost 75kkk*14 => more than the highest eco of the time writing.) Assuming level 40 mines we are at about double the wait time


And even this level is reached by around ~200-500 accounts worldwide only.

So one has to build the fleet, move the fleet, build the recyclers and just save a half year in 40% for such cr with world class mines - not including the other costs, like buildup or fleet flight costs

---
now lets look at ogame.de

we got over 200 fleets in the range of 50kk+
over 60 in the range of 100kk+

some stupid easy maffs:



thats around what will land in the df - without the losses of the attacker.
so if you want to recycle a 35kkk tf - 200 fleets are in that range or higher - its at least 1.750.000 Recylers

the costs for those on 50 sys:

1.3 bil deut, a miner in my uni makes 50kk deut a day, with some 15 positions and 180kk points in economy - thats in 6x eco and means saving for a month with one of the biggest ecos in my uni - just for a try.
assuming other sizes:
56kkk/20k: 2.800.000:


150kk fleet:


yay lets save for 4 months.
thats without the losses (Which you usually want to recycle too) and without starting your fleet even.

ok now I save 30% less - its still 3 Months :shrug: great change, 3 months saving, for one try to start on a fleet and if the enemy isnt idling as predicted you lost 1/4 of a years production for nothing


now some of my CRs for comparision:
ogmem.com/show/515058
thats way above 500kk deut, even closer to over 1kkk deut - without the fails (I had one fail start on the fleet with a reaction 4 minutes before impact)
vs:
ogmem.com/show/554037
costs were below 20kk

no wonder many "fleeters" focus on miners nowadays, its simply more efficient, less risky and less costs.

As long as this isnt acknowledged, many fleeters wont risk their fleet or productions of MONTHS => Miners will be the higher target.



And thats the reason the update fails. 30% or whatever is really possible reaching isn't not even close to being enough. The saving on miners will never be enough, if its 20kk deut or 10kk deut risk, doesn't really matter. But on bigger CRs its huge. which is why I ask @piink for those studies - it is contrary to all I've experienced so far

You don't even need to go that high: In most cases, launching Recs costs more Deut than launching the fleet itself. Which is just ridiculous.
Also, if you have to fly 100+ sys against a fleet that consists mostly of Rips, and you play in a uni with 50% DF or less, you don't even need to launch because the Deut costs for launching recs eats all the profit you'd make.

30% less Recs to send (with Hyperspacetech 15 and 2% bonus) doesn't change anything.

Also another reason why people are mad: Gameforge took 27 months to change 2 lines of code (yes, this feature really needs only roughly 2 lines of code changed) and then they nerf the initial idea in such a way that it doesn't solve any of the problems it was hoped to solve.

The release of this feature is a good start.
I am wondering why it was not implemented into the planetary storages as well?
It seems logical to me.
HD15/15+ RECs still cost to much to fly.


Regards, version4

I don't understand (in real i have the answer) these controversy.

GF added it as setting, so for hypothesis an universe could have also +20%/level to increase of cargo space.

Talk in your comunity, in your universe and maybe propose at your admins to change in old universes or how to do in new universe (I have see in some community that sometimes settings change, and sure i have see open new universe with different settings)

Personally I think the problem of recyclers is related to the change of engine ......... and this I see only a problem for the old universes where the change was not their own choice of game, but an automatic thing. Now in the new universes you decide whether or not to increase the engines with the merits and defects of the case.

Furthermore, the other setting that increases or decreases the consumption of deuterium has already been introduced.


It seems a little excessive to want to make huge fleets and then complain that the mines do not produce enough deuterium ........ it is like wanting to buy a luxury car having a worker's salary.

PS: I like the actual solution about hyperspace, in particular that you can have different kind of uni

Only someone who actually never seriously fleeted could make such a hypothesis.
If your enemies get Hyperspace-Recs and start stealing all your DFs, you do NOT have a choice. You HAVE to adapt or you could also just scrap your fleet.

Jesus, do you guys even think before you post?

LOL ............. and then you tell to me to start to think before post ?

I play as miner, so maybe i don't know anything but maybe if your problem is to win a race of speed, then perhpas there is an error in your way to play Ogame .............. nobody will steal your debris if you organize in correct way the attack.(recicler arrive when arrive your attack).

But maybe we are talking about that is becoming ogame .......... attack only park fleet ......... no study, no strategy (motive because a part of player want universe x10).

IMHO, decision of GameForge never will change if they already thought 2 years about how to realize this change ............ so you have to hope that players of your universe want to request an increase of % hyperspace

I've said it before. The main problem with recys is their deut consumption. It's the only thing that needs some nerfing. Instead of initial 300 on the first Engine mode, make it 200 or 150. That's all the change it needs. By the end of the Upgrades, it would have 600 or 450 deut consumption, which I consider still an unreasonable amount for a measly recycler to consume even at such speeds but at least it's not anywhere near a Destroyer now. Coupled with the percentage you gain with the Hyperspace tech and most of us would have their problems with Recys resolved or close to being resolved.


If you massively increase the % bonus the HSpacetech gives you now, it will solve the problem with Recys but at the same time it makes the cargoes ridiculously OP. Maybe up to 4% would be fine, but that's about it.

I marked your error for you.

Planned and organized attacks are nice and great and all, but it's a fact that 90% of all attacks are just spy 'n flies. That means if I was to time my recyclers on every hit, I would be doing nothing but wasting Deut. 90% of all hits would never happen.


I totally agree, but - and I'm repeating myself here - I don't think I will be playing in 2023 anymore or whenever Gameforge decides to look into the Deut consumption problem of recs. The proposed and accepted idea was able to fix this issue, but after 27 months of "development" they decided to overthrow it completely.
None of us believe that Gameforge is willing to put any time into OGame anymore, this idea was a spark of hope for us fleeters, but we certainly won't be like "oh, great update guys, now can we look into the Deut consumption problem of Recs?" because we all know that's not gonna happen. If it happens it will take at least 2 years to convince Gameforge that a change is needed and another 3 years to "develop" a change.

So yeah. Sounds good, doesn't work; never gonna happen.

I see i had an error, because GF decided to move up from 2% to 5%

RiV- did you hacked GF?

By the way well done GF....well done!

Thanks for adjusting it in the end.

Give us 10%... Please...

lol

Thanks for changing it back to 5%

There's a bug (hopefully a bug) that probes actually change the capacity in universes they can move resources, but not in “normal” universes.

That means that they can take for example 9 units for each probe, so one can spy a few galaxies away at 100%. But in universes where they cannot move resources, the capacity is not updated and shows 5 (even if one has hyperspace 5 for example). So they can't take enough deuterium to spy at 100% speed.

The deut cargo bay shouldn't be changed at all, not in probe cargo unis either.

@RiV- Why?
Since recyclers now can load, say, 40k units, instead of 20k units, why wouldn't be able to launch missions in which each recycler consumes say 38k deut (may be now it doesn't exist, but imagine a universe with 50 galaxies). Why would you not expand the capacity?

I understand that may be one wants the old behaviour of space being consumed by deuterium, but if the current way is one can need until 100% for deut consumption and still have 100% available to move resources, why wouldn't that scale with the capacity of the ship?

This way one can manage to launch for example heavy fighters (IIRC) at more than two galaxies after developing Hyperspace tech. It could be part of the strategy.

I think this is not a bug, but function of probe where it is not able to farm.

@Minion When I say "should" I'm not talking about how I want it to be but how it's technically implemented right now. Hyperspace Tech does not increase the deut cargo bay at all. If it does for your probes in a probeCargo uni, it's clearly a bug and not how it's expected to be.