Scavange tech! With new scavange field(new debris type!)

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    • Scavange tech! With new scavange field(new debris type!)

      Would like this or some variation of this in game? 10
      1.  
        Yes (9) 90%
      2.  
        No (1) 10%
      Scavenge Tech:

      Description:

      Empires sick of the mass losses they endure in combat demanded a technology be built to recover the endless lanes of half dead ships laying in space. Because of limitations with Recycler ships, they could never get all of the resources. Especially the most dangerous made by large amounts of ships clustered together due to their increased gravity. So a new type of laser was built. A new more powerful tractor beam to get into those harder to reach areas of a debris fields usually to dangerous to touch. It's specialty is the ability to carry out whole ships and not just the random parts they blew off when destroyed. This allows for a whole new range or scavenging to take place to recover all of those large ships that cannot usually be reached by previous recycling missions safely.

      With this tech whole ships can now be recovered from deeper within debris fields and brought back for refurbishing!

      Each level of Scavenge tech increases the amount of scavenge points you can get out of a scavenge field by 1.25% per level.

      Cost: Mineral: ?; Crystal: ?; Deu: ?

      Prereqs: EnergyTech: 3?; LaserTech: 5?; IonTech: 3?; ComputerTech: 3?

      Side Note: With this techs entrance in the game Ion Tech would also have a new stat. **-2%(or other value like 1% or 1.25%?) per level to the cost to rebuild scavenged ships! (Base 70% of original value to scavenge. Or servers debris field %value subtracted from 100%.)
      It works like this:(or something like it. Balancing may need to be done)

      A scavenge field is located at a debris field location. It is just a separate value attached to it. Whenever a debris field is made or added to it also adds points to the scavenge field. It shares the same node but requires a different mission type to utilize. A scavenge mission!

      The debris field upon addition automatically adds to a scavenge field equal to the mineral and crystal added to the debris field. This is done simply base on a mineral and crystal ratio of 1:1 Mineral:Crystal. This could be changed but is convenient.

      Example:       1m mineral/ 1m crystals produces 1m+1m= 2million scavenge points added to the scavenge field, or LF = 3,000 + 1,000 = 4,000 Scavenge points.

      These values are added to the scavenge field value whenever anything is added to a debris field and are not affected afterwords by anything besides a scavenge mission. This will give recyclers a lot more to do.

      When you go on a Scavenging mission you must initiate it with a recycler and can possibly take other ships for hauling/cargo(maybe/maybe not pretend other ships actually have the tractor beam or can aid somehow), if allowed, to add cargo space. The amount of ships needed are equal to the base structure points/scavenge points directly of the "ships recovered" and the cargo capacity of the hauling ships even though it might not actually be in the cargo per say by RP standards(it's really being hauled by a tractor beam behind). The cargo would also then be considered RP wise equivalent to a relative weight or mass a ship can haul safely with tractor beams in transit.(The ships are literally just taking scavenge points into the cargo but the above is the RP standpoint.)

      When you get to the scavenge site you can take a percentage of the fields points based on the max scavenge tech you have. so a field of 1 million scavenge points at 30% scavenge tech could get 300k points. Those points are then taken back to base and then converted to ships randomly until your allotted points are exhausted. Example: LF = 3,000 min; 1,000 cry = 3,000 + 1,000 = 4,000 points. FYI, a Field of 300k scavenge points can produce up to 75 LF as an example!

      If ships cannot be paid for the ships that cannot be paid for are lost forever along with the scavenge points.(pretend there is a giant heap pile on the planet all the traders in your trade window steal from or are allowed to take from for free. 8p) A mail could be generated also to tell you the results. Number of ships gained and any points lost at the end of the mission.

      **Base cost to fix/recover scavenged ships is 70% of their original value, or possibly 100%-debris conversion %value for ship/defense for that particular server. If defense adds to debris(adding to the scavenge field) a scavenge field would still only produce ships as it's a random value producing random ships. You would never get defense from a scavenge field. Unless some rules were made to allow those harvesting scavenge fields around their planet could be brought back and used to help rebuild defense. Maybe only if you win a battle(see optional ideas below.).

      Not sure if I'm forgetting anything.

      Optional ideas:

      Display Spoiler
      Some rules could be put in so a victor of a fight gets to automatically scavenge their percentage from any fight of their scavenge points produced from the debris of their battle before the debris goes into the debris field. This would then subtract from the value going into a scavenge field after a fight happened making the scavenge amount added not always the same as debris added. The actually amount taken isn't always the max percentage either because it is also limited by the available cargo space of all ships left over.(pretend all ships can use tractor beams but recyclers are needed to initiate scavenger missions) Any resources carried back also subtracts from how much can be hauled back if you win. The total resources in cargo would be considered before the potential scavenge points derived. A battle victors hauled ships or gained scavenge points points could also be repaired for free as an extra bonus for winning as opposed to scavenge mission which would always require paying for them based on your ion tech skill. (this would not produce random ships.)

      Also, if a defender is victorious, his defense % rebuilt could be raised above 70% to up to 100% after battle from the potential scavenge points before being potentially used for free ships. This would be limited by the scavenge tech value and if he lost any defense to begin with. These could be rebuilt for free or cost something like ships but allow a cheaper rebuild for those defense. If he lost ships those considerations could be take into account minus the defense values subtracted afterwords. The above defense structures value above 70% could be reduced from structure available for winning then recover ships afterwords.) If you have more structure than you can recover(either attacker or defender win) those points go into the scavenge field.

      The defense victory could work by raising the initial % chance of the whole defense recover or by adding a second check for more defense to recover based on scavenge tech levels. If it raises the initial calculation all defense recovered should be free. If it is a separate check it should used to keep track of the extra defense to make the defense pay for it. This is dependent on which variation happens for a victor. Either way they get more back for less than they would have without the tech.

      Example:

      Victor has 20% scavenge chance. and 30% reduction to cost(AKA 40%)

      Defender wins!

      1. His chance of defense recovery is raised to 90% from 70%(he could be using debris to reconstruct the defense on the fly. This on top of ship recovery or instead of it. In this version all Victory recoupes are free and only scavenge missions are affected by the Ion tech value!

      2. He recovers 70% of his defense and a second check is done for another 20%. Those defense cost value is subtracted from any scavange points for the victory he is allotted. After defense any remaining goes to recover his ships giving his ships a recover rate equal to his scavenge tech% if he wins.(To the victor goes the spoils) Any unusable scavenger points go into the scavenge field around the planet. In this scenario it's easy to count the cost and it could be paid for at the cost of his Ion tech level based on the servers base cost. He pays 40% of the total cost out of pocket for all ships/defense recovered above and beyond his original free 70% defense.(The cost is the literal cost of the units reduced to 40%.)

      Attacker wins!

      The literal debris value that would go into the debri field is calculated at the end of combat. The total Scavenge field points are calculated from this.

      Those scavenge points then have the Scavenge tech % applied from them and that amount has his ship values subtracted from his actual ships and those ships are hauled back. If any points are left over then the exact ships of the enemy are converted and those specific ships are hauled as well or random ships generated as if from a scavenge field. Those are both checked against available cargo space after minerals are loaded for max cargo. The structure value of those ships are put against available cargo as if they were base structure individually and applied in order. Any remaining points left are put into the scavenge field around the planet.


      No auto scavenge on victory!

      If no scavenging is done automatically for the victor, each battle simply produces a debris field like normal and the debris fields mineral and crystals and generate the scavenger points upon addition to the debris field. And the only way to recover scavenge points is when send in recyclers, etc, separate from battle.

      End result!

      Any combo could exist. Either Attack+Defender rule variants could exist. Or either Attacker or Defender rules for victory could exist. Or it could always work like the last option where the victor has no bearings on anything and all debris goes directly into scavenge and you have to send things on a scavenge mission to get ships making it a total free for all!

      Edit: BTW, scavenge points do not reduce debris fields mineral or crystals either. They are simply made simultaneously with it from their value. It's pretending that the normal debris is only some of a natural debris field and there have always been more debris in the fields but unusable by current or previous recycler tech. This is now utilizing more of it. IE, now 60% of ship debris is now represented in game instead of just 30%, or 2x the servers norm however you want to look at it.

      As a note. You are not really getting 60% back from debris and scavenge. You are getting 30% debris plus 30% modified by the %amount it cost to rebuild those ships. So it's not encroaching on defense stats as much as it looks.

      *The Version with "No auto scavenge on victory!" is the easiest to implement and doesn't effect other game mechanics as much. The others should be if there is some balance or for a variant of a special server rule.



      ****Edit: I found a problem with the idea. For simplicities sake all scavenge points and ratios need to be 1:1 mineral:crystal(previously 1:3). This allows the points to simply be carried in the cargo. Then when the ships return to their planet they can be converted randomly to ships and paid for and a mail given to the player saying what ships they received and possibly what points lost or wasted.

      The post was edited 20 times, last by Articulon ().

    • board.us.ogame.gameforge.com/b…recovery-rate/#post540322


      Quoted from "Articulon"

      Scavenge Tech:

      Description:

      Empires sick of the mass losses they endure in combat demanded a technology be built to recover the endless lanes of half dead ships laying in space. Because of a problem with recyclers they could never get all of the resources. Especially the most dangerous made by large amounts of ships clustered together due to their increased gravity. So a new type of laser was built. A new more powerful tractor beam to get into those harder to reach areas of a debris fields usually to dangerous to touch. It's specialty is the ability to carry out whole ships and not just the random parts they blew off when destroyed. This allows for a whole new range or scavenging to take place to recover all of those large ships that cannot usually be reached by previous recycling missions safely.

      Each level of Scavenge tech increases the amount of scavenge points you can get out of a scavenge field by 1.25% per level.

      Cost: Mineral: ?; Crystal: ?; Deu: ?

      Prereqs: EnergyTech: 3?; LaserTech: 5?; IonTech: 3?; ComputerTech: 3?

      With this techs entrance in the game Ion Tech would also have a new stat. **-2%(or other value like 1% or 1.25%?) per level to the cost to rebuild scavenged ships! (Base 70% of original value to scavenge. Or servers debris field conversion %value subtracted from 100%.)
      I'll try to simplify this again. Not much to it:

      1. A new value is added to all debris fields. This is called the scavenge field and it's points are called scavenge points.
      2. Whenever debris is added to a debris field it adds an equal value of points to the scavenge fields value simultaneously(AKA scavenge points).(example: 500mineral +500crystals added to a debris field adds 1,000 scavenge points to the scavenge field simultaneously.)
      3. Scavenge points stay after you take debris via a normal recycle mission.(They are unaffected)
      4. A new mission type called Scavenge is added to the game. It must be initiated by a recycler.(other ships could possibly aid with cargo space if desired if permitted by the game.)
      5. When you reach a scavenge field you can take as many points into your cargo hold as your Scavenge tech and cargo capacity allows and those scavenge points are subtracted from the scavenge field.
      6. When you reach your planet of origin those points are converted to ships randomly one by one based on equivalent base structure(aka base cost in terms of Mineral+Crystal) and paid until the points are used up or you can't pay for more and it exhausted attempts to recover cheaper ships.
      7. As many ships as can be are paid for and added to your fleet window or if not remaining points and are discarded and lost.
      8. A mail is sent to you telling the results. How many ships gained and/or how many points lost.
      9. Points lost do not go back to the scavenge field.
      Example:
      • 4,000,000 scavenge points in a scavenge field.
      • Scavenge mission initiated and arrives.
      • Player has 25% scavenge Tech and can take a max of 1,000,000 scavenge points back.(4,000,000x0.25= 1,000,000)
      • When he arrives they are randomly converted to ships and paid for one by one.(The game attempts generate a smaller ship when it can't pay for one until it gets to the smallest ship in the game and can't pay for(AKA Espionage probes.) it or it exhausts all available scavenge points.)
      • If his Ion tech gives him -30% on cost he pays (70%-30%) or 40% of the base cost for each ship.
      • The game tries to pay for as many as possibly and when done sends a mail giving results.
      • The 1,000,000 can convert to up to 250 LF, 100 HF, 37 CR, 16 BS, 14 BC, 9 DE, etc, or any combination of ships allowed to be converted from
        scavenge!.
      Hopefully that makes this easier to understand.

    • Resimplifying!!(and new base price)

      I noticed the Scrap merchant has a 75% max for his stuff so I'll copy him:
      Ion Tech:

      +2% per level to reduction in base price of scavenged ships.(This added to the tech ability)
      Scavenge Tech:

      Description:

      Empires sick of the mass losses they endure in combat demanded a technology be built to recover the endless lanes of their half dead ships laying in space. Because of a problem with recyclers they could previously never get all of the debris back. Especially the most dangerous parts made by large amounts of ships clustered together due to their collective gravity fluctuations. So a new type of laser was built. A new more powerful tractor beam to get into those harder to reach areas of a debris fields usually to dangerous to touch. It's specialty is the ability to pick out and carry whole ships and not just the random parts they blew off when destroyed. This allows for a whole new range of recovery after combat. And hence scavenging was born!

      Cost: Scavenge tech could cost similar to Ion but have different resources if desired. Uncertain of specifics.

      1.xx%(1.32?) Scavange points per level from scavenge field.(This could be adjusted for desired affect. I have yet to determine base price or amount of scavenge points appropriate for the tech.

      Prereqs: EnergyTech: 3?; LaserTech: 5?; IonTech: 3?; ComputerTech: 3?
      ---------------------------------

      All materials going into the a debris field also add equal amounts of scavenge points at a rate of 1:1 for both mineral and crystal. These points can only be remove via a scavenge mission.(This represents more debri/ships not normally obtainable via a normal rec mission as in the tech description above) The scavenge field is a second separate variable attached to a debris field and notable by putting the mouse over the debris field.(Uncertain if empty debri fields with scavenge points attached should still highlight white. Maybe if a second color like orange is attached and a lined pattern used with wihte/orange when both are present? Or a similar pattern where white and orange are incorporated somehow like the differing rocks being different colors. If only scavenge points are present the debris field could be pure orange.)

      At level 25 ion tech and level 25 Scavenge tech you could pay -50%(IE. 75%-50% = 25%) price for ships and 33% points from a scavenge field per visit!

      All aspects work as above except no special rules for combat etc. After combat all debris also results in equal amounts of scavenge points on a debris field. You collect scavenge points with a scavenge mission and get your ships. Should help keep fleets up more and help rebound from mistakes etc. And help build up fleets. You can crash fleets for resources and get ships from it.

      Anyone have any ideas how this could be balanced to be useful in game? Changes to numbers etc. Maybe it could be half of the scavenge points produced as opposed to 1:1 or something else? This could be nice to help keep the game fluent. Recs will have a lot more function.

      Example: Battle ends and 4,000,000 crystal+minerals go into a debris field. At 1:1 That means the new scavenge field also has 4,000,000 scavenge points to raid for ships. The scavenge points are collected if you go on a scavenge mission as opposed to a debris/recycling mission. The points are collected based on your tech and brought to your base where they are converted to ships based on base price and a 1:1 scale(IE LF cost 4,000 Scavenge points, BS cost 60K points) and paid for or the points are discarded and lost if you cannot afford them. Ships are generated randomly. The game attempts to get as many ships as it can with your available funds without creating an infinite loop.

      With 4,000,000 points at 33% you can collect 1,320,000 points with one mission and they are converted on arrival to the planet the recyclers came from. With 1.32m points you can get up to 330 LF for 25% price(IE. 330k total mineral+crystal) or any other variation of ships produced.

      Edit:

      Idea: Maybe since this gets taken on a percentage and can never be fully removed the Scavenge points should be wiped weekly or daily with the server to not make it build up endlessly. Or maybe just Scavenge points collectively below a certain value representing them separating and floating off into deep space. Then larger clusters can still be collected long term while smaller ones dissipate!

      Possibly example:

      Daily wipe: 10,000 and below at server reset disappear.
      Weekly wipe: 100,000 and below are removed automatically.

      This gives time to collect them and removes them regularly to not clog the servers while leaving larger nodes for collection.

    • Idea inspired by this post: board.us.ogame.gameforge.com/b…recovery-rate/#post551280

      in addition to the normal function, if a ship cannot be paid for during the ship generation process upon returning from a scavenge mission, it attempts to use scavenge points to repair the ships it is attempting to generate/recover. As stated in my example if a Battle ship comes up and you do not have sufficient min/crystal to repair it can use scavenge points in appropriate numbers to repair.

      Example: You have 120k points and a Battle ship randomly comes up to be repaired at the end of the scavenge. It has already determined you do not have the Min/Crys on said planet to do the repairs under normal circumstances. It can then take up to 60k extra scavenge points to do attempt a repair. If you are short again it can look for min/cry to make up for the difference to complete the repair. If not it generates another ship until the lowest ship type cannot be repaired.

      The question would be is if the reduction from scavenge would be applied to such a situation or if it would only use the base cost when considering scavenging from scavenge points?

      "I think the only question is does the Ion tech bonus for reduced cost affect how many scavenge points are used or not. It could cost full price for any min cry cost when using scavenge points to fix as the represent reduced price from the ship being available to fix. The use of scavenge points is using a whole ship to fix another hence no reduction possibly. And if any min/cry is used it is already reduced by the use of scavenge points. Ion tech either represents the ability to manufacture parts cheaper or part of the tractor beams ability to get the ships back in bigger pieces saving money. I think the latter is most appropriate potentially.." As I said in the other thread this may be a good answer.

      And as noted this idea could be good for fleeters since if it only needs mineral and crystal to get ships you can get ships normally costing duet for no duet and a reduced price.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Articulon ().